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[Rodimus Prime]

:lol:

I knew it! I'm glad my instincts about this movie were right. Now I don't have to waste any more time being even mildly curious. After all, it's for "the homies."

Holy racism Batman!

You should read the definition of that word. If anyone is racist, it's the movie's director and writer(s). He himself said in the newsed article itself that the movie's for his minority "homies" back in Brooklyn where he's from. Assuming I'm a racist just for pointing that out is very ignorant and could be racist as well.

People in these comments just seething over “oH iTs wOkE” because it’s going to (probably briefly) deal with culture outside of America.

Did you even read the news article? I think we're talking about 2 different things.

Was it woke in the Bumblebee movie how it explores 80s American culture by showing us Hailey Steinfeld’s character’s life?

Not at all. But there should have been less of it.

Yeah yeah we all want a “100% on Cybertron zero humans plot” but it’s not the end of the world, more and different media will always be coming.

But it isn't. It's the same old human-centric garbage, except this time the main human is black. Whoop-dee-fvcking-doo. And the fact the director is beating his chest over that aspect is why I'm irked. He should have been focused on the Transformers characters, since, you know, it's a Transformers movie!

Man, some of these comments make me ashamed to be a Tf fan.

If you think human characters should be a priority over Transformers, then you should be ashamed.

[Cheesinator]

I can't speak for other people, but I would have the same angry reaction if the director claimed that the movie was made to "celebrate French people and Christian values".

For instance - in any of the previous TF movies, did the marketers ever say anything like that? Why then, do they feel the need to do so now? Why not simply allow admiration of a culture to happen organically on its own? Criticism of movies and stories is expected - there are entire industries built around being critical and skeptical of movies, their stories, and the motivations behind their being written and produced. What is it about skepticism/criticism of this one which causes some to say it's 'horrifying'...?

I mean...the obvious answer is that there was never any real showcase of minority culture in the previous movies (besides caricatures like the Twins), so why would they ever say anything like that? We absolutely get pretty big insights into the lives of three different families over the Transformers movies so far, who happen to be white. For people outside the US, these are insights into a particular demographic/culture, but it's one showcased in Hollywood almost constantly.

From the sounds of it, ROTB is the first Transformers movie that is going to focus on main characters of a different ethnicity, who are otherwise not focused on very much. That means that, even if we just get glimpses into their personal/family lives in the same way we did in other movies, these cultures are going to be showcased (somewhat).

The director pretty much just pointed this out, and people like you are reacting negatively and acting as though the whole movie is going to revolve specifically around race. To really spell it out, this makes you guys seem kinda racist (not saying that you are; I do not know you), and lots of people find racism 'horrifying'.

Yeah yeah we all want a “100% on Cybertron zero humans plot” but it’s not the end of the world, more and different media will always be coming.

But it isn't. It's the same old human-centric garbage, except this time the main human is black.

Weirdly, this is the least neckbeardy take on this (from your side) that I've seen in this thread so far.

It's fine to already be pissed at the movie because it will have any human focus at all (assuming of course you have equal vitriol for most of other Transformers movies/shows which also heavily feature humans). What's a little more unsettling is the people who were fine with the previous stuff but are now enraged purely because the humans involved are not white.

[84everfan]

Dude, we've had 6 movies with humans as the focus, we're not gonna suddenly lose our composure because you decided to use a different color crayon.
No one is excited about this. You know what's groundbreaking? A Beast Wars movie. No one's in this for the humans. You want representation? Fine. Don't make it the focus, the humans DO. NOT. MATTER.

[84everfan]

Great job hiring a Director with political goals for a movie that shouldn't include humans to begin with.
God forbid art be "fun".

[william-james88]

It's fine if those two films don't fit within your definition, but they did for others. People even coined the term "Woke-anda". And they had lots of articles like the one I newsed. That's why I mentioned them, they seem like a good comparison to what we see here. If you don't have an issue with those films, then I think you won't mind this next Transformers either. From everything I see, this film won't be a pure "woke" film. It will be a live action TF film though, with Bay involved in some aspect, which comes with everything people may or may not like about those. But that's another discussion.

I dont believe one bit that ROTB will be "woke". At all. What I take issue with is that the marketing is telling me that my all-dressed pizza was made to "celebrate" green peppers. I can only sigh at this.

We have to remember that this is an article from BET, so talk of being Black and seeing the film and story through that lens was always going to be a given. It's like an article for a site about zoology would only look at the Beast element of the film, even though the Beasts are only one aspect and not the whole movie. I wouldn't even call this marketing, it's just an interview with BET, giving people a different perspective. If we get a promotional title card with the words "this film is Brave" or merchandise titled similarly like we did with Black panther 2, then yeah, I'd address it differently than I do now.
I newsed this because it did offer up a lot of stuff we didn't know about the characters and people had been curious about the song choice. Also, the trailer was very robot heavy, something fans liked, but this article offered the human side of things which fans may have not realized was still very much a part of the film. And I generally found everything mentioned something newsworthy, or at least that could spark discussion here.

[SpaceEagle]

As a Mexican it is pretty neat seeing some representation in Transformers. While I'll probably keep focus on the big robots smashing things up, it's still neat.

Edit: Considering one of the replies above me, it seems like a good idea to ignore this thread for the most part. I'm just happy people of my race get some representation and I know my black friends are happy their race will get some focus too.
Can't wait to see the film.

[william-james88]

Loving the discussion by the way. We are all rather civil, and being all on this site, we approach it at least with the ultimate hope for a film we'd like added to the pantheon of great Transformers entertainment (whether it be this one or the next, or another film some day).

I have another article in mind since there has been some insider info coming from the special effects team. However, it is not good. Hasbro/Paramount switched their current films (this one and the upcoming Dungeons and Dragons) from using ILM to MPC for visual effects and people from MPC are saying that they are currently undergoing crunch time when they know they won't be able to provide the same level of effects as ILM. We already see it in the trailer with odd clipping that we never had before in any transformers film (even their early trailers).

Now I consider this pretty big news, it's are insider info. But it also comes across as a hit piece on the film and I don't know if it's worth writing something that only leads to more "sky is falling" from fans.

So you'll let me know, should I news that or not.

[-Kanrabat-]

I can't speak for other people, but I would have the same angry reaction if the director claimed that the movie was made to "celebrate French people and Christian values".

For instance - in any of the previous TF movies, did the marketers ever say anything like that? Why then, do they feel the need to do so now? Why not simply allow admiration of a culture to happen organically on its own? Criticism of movies and stories is expected - there are entire industries built around being critical and skeptical of movies, their stories, and the motivations behind their being written and produced. What is it about skepticism/criticism of this one which causes some to say it's 'horrifying'...?

Well put.

[Rtron]

As a Mexican it is pretty neat seeing some representation in Transformers. While I'll probably keep focus on the big robots smashing things up, it's still neat.

Edit: Considering one of the replies above me, it seems like a good idea to ignore this thread for the most part. I'm just happy people of my race get some representation and I know my black friends are happy their race will get some focus too.
Can't wait to see the film.

Didn't they also film in Perú? Perú somehow has a HUGE Transformers community.

Would it bother you if they end up mishmashing Incans, Mayans and Aztecs like they always do? It's a huge pet peevee of mine.

EDIT: Well, huge by south american stardards, as seen by a guy from a place where the fandom is practically non existent.

[SpaceEagle]

As a Mexican it is pretty neat seeing some representation in Transformers. While I'll probably keep focus on the big robots smashing things up, it's still neat.

Edit: Considering one of the replies above me, it seems like a good idea to ignore this thread for the most part. I'm just happy people of my race get some representation and I know my black friends are happy their race will get some focus too.
Can't wait to see the film.

Didn't they also film in Perú? Perú somehow has a HUGE Transformers community.

Would it bother you if they end up mishmashing Incans, Mayans and Aztecs like they always do? It's a huge pet peevee of mine.

It's filmed in Peru yes, I'm just mentioning I'm Mexican since it says hispanic in general

I would probably roll my eyes at the mishmash but it's nothing new to me!

[Rtron]

Loving the discussion by the way. We are all rather civil, and being all on this site, we approach it at least with the ultimate hope for a film we'd like added to the pantheon of great Transformers entertainment (whether it be this one or the next, or another film some day).

I have another article in mind since there has been some insider info coming from the special effects team. However, it is not good. Hasbro/Paramount switched their current films (this one and the upcoming Dungeons and Dragons) from using ILM to MPC for visual effects and people from MPC are saying that they are currently undergoing crunch time when they know they won't be able to provide the same level of effects as ILM. We already see it in the trailer with odd clipping that we never had before in any transformers film (even their early trailers).

Now I consider this pretty big news, it's are insider info. But it also comes across as a hit piece on the film and I don't know if it's worth writing something that only leads to more "sky is falling" from fans.

So you'll let me know, should I news that or not.

That the effects are gonna be pretty bad compared to previous movies is a given, since the sfx people in general are getting insanely exploited lately, which has caused an industry wide decline in quality. There's a pretty clear solution for that that has already worked for writers and actors, but it may be very difficult to implement in the current climate. And sfx is part of the whole "design" side of professions which has historically been exploited in every industry, not just movies.

[william-james88]

What's really bizarre about all this is that Bumblebee already set the precedent for this in a major way. Hailee Steinfeld's character was a huge focus (both in marketing and the movie itself), with the film going into her family, history, personality and trauma. People like you didn't seem to mind when it was a white girl, but apparently trying to do the same with nonwhite people is completely enraging?

Just to add to the diversity in Bumblebee, Hailee Stenifeld isn't white. She's a mix of lots of cultures, including African American and Filipino. The main All American white guy was John Cena, who was the "bad guy" for a big part of the film and who learns that not all giant robots are bad.

Though this interview does seen to forget guys like Tyrese Gibson and Amaury Nolasco.

It forgets Hailey too.

:lol:

I knew it! I'm glad my instincts about this movie were right. Now I don't have to waste any more time being even mildly curious. After all, it's for "the homies."

I'll admit, that line about the homies made me chuckle. But you know what, it shows you read the article, which is great, because many times (like what's happening on facebook right now), people comments about not liking something before even reading what is being said.

For instance - in any of the previous TF movies, did the marketers ever say anything like that?

Yes, they did. Michael Bay promoted the military's involvement, which I would 100% label as a political aspect to the film.

The prep for the movie is going well. The military looks like it is going to support the film which is a big deal in giving the movie scope and credibility. The Pentagon has always been great with me because I make our military look good.

Here's another quote about what he thinks Winston Churchill would think about his film:

I just want to say, people were not fortunate enough to read the script, and they don’t know that Churchill in this movie is a big hero. And Churchill would be smiling about Last Knight. They haven’t seen the movie, they don’t know the ending, and they don’t know how Churchill is a hero in this movie. So, as the staff said, ‘He’d be smiling right now.'When you see the movie, you’ll understand. I for one, probably more than any director in the world, have shot more veterans and more active military men and women in my movies. I would do nothing to disrespect veterans.

And Travis Knight used similar words when describing his vision for Bumblebee with an extraordinary girl at the centre of the film:

Hailee is extraordinary! When I first sat down with the producers and told them my vision for the film there was only one name of an actor that left my lips and that was Hailee Steinfeld. I knew that if we were going to have this extraordinary girl at the centre of the film then it could only be Hailee – she is the only person I could think of that could bring that character to life in a meaningful way. She’s incredibly gifted, is fearless, she can break your heart and lift your spirits. It was a real thrill to collaborate with her to bring this character to life.

These are all from a quick google search, I'm sure we'd find more in video interviews. But in short to answer your question: yes, other TF films have done this, it is not new. Michael Bay wanted to showcase the military through his films, Travis Knight wanted to have a girl at the center of his film and Steven Caple Jr is looking at this film through the lens of a Black man. All did interviews about how they address their films in ways that is outside of just being about the robots.

[Rodimus Prime]

Yeah yeah we all want a “100% on Cybertron zero humans plot” but it’s not the end of the world, more and different media will always be coming.

But it isn't. It's the same old human-centric garbage, except this time the main human is black.

Weirdly, this is the least neckbeardy take on this (from your side) that I've seen in this thread so far.

"Neckbeardy?" Seriously? You pass judgment on me because I have a different opinion on the subject than you do even after I gave reasons for it? We don't have to agree but you assuming the worst right off the bat says something about your thought process rather than mine. At the least it makes you a hypocrite.

It's fine to already be pissed at the movie because it will have any human focus at all (assuming of course you have equal vitriol for most of other Transformers movies/shows which also heavily feature humans).

I have. Ever since Armada. The only exception was the Prime show, because it was well written and made the 3 kids a natural part of the story while limiting background characters and focusing on the Transformers. I gave a pass to the 1st Bay film because I understood that to appeal to general audiences it couldn't be *only* Transformers.

But I hoped that any sequels would cut back on them, but all we got were more mediocre acting and caricatures of minorities in the rest of the movies. Even the Twins were a crude joke, making them a waste of Transformers screen time, which to me was an even bigger offense. And with every movie, whether Bay had a direct hand in the story or not, the focus became the people. The Bee movie kinda turned it on its side, because Bee and the Cons were very much the focus, and even though Charlie was also around, her story was integral so I got past it. But it was a rehash of the 1st movie, except with a female lead.

And NOW we have the same thing, but with a main character who is a black version of Sam Witwicky. Even that fact in itself is fine. The kid is black, whatever. It shouldn't be the central focus of the story, like the director said it will be. It's the same argument I had 4 previous times. (RoTF, DoTM, AoE, TLK)

What's little more unsettling is the people who were fine with the previous stuff but are now enraged purely because the humans involved are not white.

Agreed. If they're TF fans, they should be upset there are main character humans, period.

My displeasure is also fueled by 1 other aspect: I'm a HUGE Beast Wars fan. Despite previously knowing the director's racial proclivities, I was still willing to give this a shot just to see the BW characters on the big screen. Then we got word about some of the characters, and even though I thought the new concept in Scourge was intriguing, I was a bit let down. Then the director had said the movie will have "a 90s hip-hop flavor" and then I started seeing the writing on the wall. It would be about the humans, AGAIN.

Which meant the beasts were going to get limited screen time, because besides the humans, of course the G1 characters had to be included. Prime and Bee, fine. But Mirage, Wheeljack and Arcee? WHY? Thanks to that, it looks like some of the Maximals will get a few scenes and that's it. The Predacons? Almost nothing, maybe a few fight scenes. Character development? Forget it.

[-Kanrabat-]

I'm not quoting but I agree with will that the US Army glorification in the first Bay trilogy was indeed a heavy political message.

And if I remember, most of us found it cringe. Especially when the human army could mow down Decepticons without much effort.

[Rodimus Prime]

I' agree with will that the US Army glorification in the first Bay trilogy was indeed a heavy political message.

I 2nd that. At the very least, they could have given us the Combaticons if the military *had* to be involved. Instead we got Dumbasstator and his balls. Thanks Bay.

And if I remember, most of us found it cringe. Especially when the human army could mow down Decepticons without much effort.

Including the Combaticons would have fixed some of that.

[ZeroWolf]

You do realise he would have had the humans still kill the combaticons just to say the US military is better? Just as it was the human military that killed blackout (and devastator in RotF)

[Dragon_Lord]

As a Mexican it is pretty neat seeing some representation in Transformers. While I'll probably keep focus on the big robots smashing things up, it's still neat.

Edit: Considering one of the replies above me, it seems like a good idea to ignore this thread for the most part. I'm just happy people of my race get some representation and I know my black friends are happy their race will get some focus too.
Can't wait to see the film.

As a Dominican I dread to think on how they'll do it.

[william-james88]

We published an article the other day to set up expectations for the upcoming Transformers Rise of the Beasts film which simply meant to show that the ongoing debate of this series being rebooted or not was irrelevant IF it didn't change what many fans often begrudged the Live Action Transformers movies for. One week has passed and the article feels almost prescient since the trailer did indeed reveal that the film was not a clear cut reboot, with several visual call backs to the Bay films. And an article/interview from BET revealed more details about the human component which the trailer did not show much of.

So we have familiar live action visuals, some focus on the humans, but a Bay-style live action Transformers film would not be the same without a random MacGuffin. And guess what, we now have news of such a thing. On Battletrap's Studio Series toy bio, we learn that the two human characters will have an encounter with this villain when it hunts for the Transwarp Key.

Battletrap fires a barrage of blasts at Noah and Elena to secure the Transwarp Key.

Now will that be the main MacGuffin? What does the Transwarp key open? We don't know, but this gives you an idea of what the film entails since the teaser trailer gave us nothing plot related, which is typical of teasers.

[Rodimus Prime]

You do realise he would have had the humans still kill the combaticons just to say the US military is better?

Probably. But I'm thinking in terms of TF/human ratio on screen. If some of the TFs were military vehicles, it might have scratched Bay's itch a little, and he wouldn't have gone over the top on the military on the human side. Plus, it might have been a better outcome to have Bruticus than Devastator. Only my speculation (and wishful thinking) of course.

[Micktrap397]

I wonder how TJomega feels when he reads this?

[Cheesinator]

Yeah yeah we all want a “100% on Cybertron zero humans plot” but it’s not the end of the world, more and different media will always be coming.

But it isn't. It's the same old human-centric garbage, except this time the main human is black.

Weirdly, this is the least neckbeardy take on this (from your side) that I've seen in this thread so far.

"Neckbeardy?" Seriously? You pass judgment on me because I have a different opinion on the subject than you do even after I gave reasons for it? We don't have to agree but you assuming the worst right off the bat says something about your thought process rather than mine. At the least it makes you a hypocrite.

That's fair. I didn't mean to infer at any point that I'm not neckbeardy myself (I am afterall an adult arguing on a Transformers forum about whether anyone is allowed to be happy about ethnic representation in a scifi flick), but I apologise for causing offense.

Battletrap fires a barrage of blasts at Noah and Elena to secure the Transwarp Key.

Now will that be the main McGuffin? What does the Transwarp key open? We don't know, but this gives you an idea of what the film entails since the teaser trailer gave us nothing plot related, which is typical of teasers.

That certainly sounds like the newest McGuffin. The usual use of that term in scifi suggests it might play a similar role to the spacebridge pillars in DOTM (ie a device allowing the largescale transport of resources/troops from place to place).

But then, the plot is rarely the strong point in these movies. As long as it provides a decent enough reason for the conflict, I'm not fussed if it's completely interchangeable with the McGuffins we've had so far.

[Rodimus Prime]

Yeah yeah we all want a “100% on Cybertron zero humans plot” but it’s not the end of the world, more and different media will always be coming.

But it isn't. It's the same old human-centric garbage, except this time the main human is black.

Weirdly, this is the least neckbeardy take on this (from your side) that I've seen in this thread so far.

"Neckbeardy?" Seriously? You pass judgment on me because I have a different opinion on the subject than you do even after I gave reasons for it? We don't have to agree but you assuming the worst right off the bat says something about your thought process rather than mine. At the least it makes you a hypocrite.

That's fair. I didn't mean to infer at any point that I'm not neckbeardy myself (I am afterall an adult arguing on a Transformers forum about whether anyone is allowed to be happy about ethnic representation in a scifi flick), but I apologise for causing offense.

Accepted. And to be honest, maybe I could have worded my initial posts differently. I see how my posts might be misconstrued as detrimental to the cultural aspect of the main character. That's not the case at all.

So let me be clear: I have no gripe with the fact that the main human character is not white. My gripe is the fact that the main human character is the focus of the story. Just like in the 1st 5 films. The Bee movie also had it, but they made it work. And now we're right back to the same old with this film, simply because the director wants to use it as a social justice pedestal as opposed to a good Transformers film. And who will suffer? The Transformers characters themselves, especially the newer characters, the beasts. The very reason this movie should be seen.

Just because the emphasis was put on differences in human culture instead of base content of the franchise from the get-go shows me how little regard the creators have for the Transformers themselves.

[JomasterII]

If this means the focus is gonna be heavily weighted to the humans then I'm honestly gonna be skipping the film, even my boyfriend agrees.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

I noticed the thread had moved on a surprising number of pages since I last saw it. Expecting some new toy or plot news, I clicking on what I missed...

[First-Aid]

I think you guys are giving too much weight to this interview.

The impression I got from this, is how they are proud of their work, and how someone who came from their paths of life can now contribute and be part of Transformers.

Though this interview does seen to forget guys like Tyrese Gibson and Amaury Nolasco.

Agreed. But it's the fact that people are reacting with such disgust to even the possibility of nonwhite culture having a focus that is troubling.

It’s downright horrifying. All because the latest political buzzword has come to be used as a “safe” avenue to express general bigotry. A franchise about change on a fundamental level seems to have a lot of people mad that things dare change. ALL OF THIS for a movie that, overall, will probably be relatively generic (not to discredit my excitement, just a realistic expectation).

I can't speak for other people, but I would have the same angry reaction if the director claimed that the movie was made to "celebrate French people and Christian values".

This. SO MUCH this.

We all WANT a Transformers movie like the cartoons, focusing on the Transformers themselves. It's our dream. This shouldn't "celebrate" ANY racial, religious, or sexual aspects, it should celebrate TRANSFORMERS.

There is nothing wrong with celebrating those things, just doing it to the exclusion of a story or the main reason for the movie/tV series. Hopefully they will learn from the recent issues with Doctor Who. Doctors 9, 10/11, 12, and 13 were off the chart popular because of great writing. There are ALWAYS lessons in Doctor Who, but good writing disguises them in creative storylines and characters. When Jodie Whitaker came onboard, a new writer took over and, frankly, it was a lesson everytime but they no longer tried hiding it...or they tried to and just were horrible at it. The result? Doctor Who ratings globally are down dramatically, with Oprah re-runs outscoring them in some cases. The BLATANTNESS was the turn-off. It boiled down to horrible writing, making the "woke" lesson the story as opposed to disguising it in a fun or intense storyline. It was just, "Here you go. Sorry it's not entertaining in even the least bit." I loved the show, as did my wife- who actually got me into Doctor Who (I'm a sassy Nine fan, she's a Colin Baker person). We watched the first three with Jodie and she turned it off in disgust. Her opinion- it was just stupid and borderline offensive to old fans.

It's not the WHAT that matters. It's the HOW. If the overarching theme in the movie is black and Latino culture and NOT Transformers, then that is failure.