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Sonray wrote:

Professor Smooth wrote:Sonray, by your own logic, these nine-to-fivers are doing work that a monkey could do. They are lucky to not have their jobs shipped out to China or automated entirely. They should be happy just having a job in today's modern world.

Work is work. Sometimes it's physically draining; sometimes it's mentally draining. The difference is that when something is physically draining, you can go home, shower it off, and pass out. When something is mentally draining it stays with you after you "clock out." It can make it very difficult to sleep. That's what happens with jobs that have some consequence to them. It's something that a person doomed to physical labor will never understand. Look at the consequences of failure. So you dropped a bag of cement. That sucks. Pick it up and keep carrying it. Turn in a terrible movie script and you'll have millions of people, many of whom will never even meet you, cursing your name for years.

I think there's a song written about this somewhere. Money for Nothin', I believe.

meh, i dont see it that way but whatever.

Hay all i am back and i just gotta say classic sonray response, or in other words i find his point rather shallow, in that although it has personnal merit it fails to take in any other external input at all.

I gotta say that mental beats phsyical hands down, try teaching in a prison all day and then going home and trying to forget about it-if ur job is mental it taxes u 24/7

GrimSqueaker wrote:

Sonray wrote:

Professor Smooth wrote:Sonray, by your own logic, these nine-to-fivers are doing work that a monkey could do. They are lucky to not have their jobs shipped out to China or automated entirely. They should be happy just having a job in today's modern world.

Work is work. Sometimes it's physically draining; sometimes it's mentally draining. The difference is that when something is physically draining, you can go home, shower it off, and pass out. When something is mentally draining it stays with you after you "clock out." It can make it very difficult to sleep. That's what happens with jobs that have some consequence to them. It's something that a person doomed to physical labor will never understand. Look at the consequences of failure. So you dropped a bag of cement. That sucks. Pick it up and keep carrying it. Turn in a terrible movie script and you'll have millions of people, many of whom will never even meet you, cursing your name for years.

I think there's a song written about this somewhere. Money for Nothin', I believe.

meh, i dont see it that way but whatever.

Hay all i am back and i just gotta say classic sonray response, or in other words i find his point rather shallow, in that although it has personnal merit it fails to take in any other external input at all.

I gotta say that mental beats phsyical hands down, try teaching in a prison all day and then going home and trying to forget about it-if ur job is mental it taxes u 24/7

What do you mean by has no external input? If you mean others who agree then of course its not gonna have that, because very few people have led a similar kind of life i have, but i KNOW how hard life really is. I only speak from personal experience, and what my life has made me into.

Just FYI though, there are some that agree with me som im not alone.

Sonray wrote:

GrimSqueaker wrote:

Sonray wrote:

Professor Smooth wrote:Sonray, by your own logic, these nine-to-fivers are doing work that a monkey could do. They are lucky to not have their jobs shipped out to China or automated entirely. They should be happy just having a job in today's modern world.

Work is work. Sometimes it's physically draining; sometimes it's mentally draining. The difference is that when something is physically draining, you can go home, shower it off, and pass out. When something is mentally draining it stays with you after you "clock out." It can make it very difficult to sleep. That's what happens with jobs that have some consequence to them. It's something that a person doomed to physical labor will never understand. Look at the consequences of failure. So you dropped a bag of cement. That sucks. Pick it up and keep carrying it. Turn in a terrible movie script and you'll have millions of people, many of whom will never even meet you, cursing your name for years.

I think there's a song written about this somewhere. Money for Nothin', I believe.

meh, i dont see it that way but whatever.

Hay all i am back and i just gotta say classic sonray response, or in other words i find his point rather shallow, in that although it has personnal merit it fails to take in any other external input at all.

I gotta say that mental beats phsyical hands down, try teaching in a prison all day and then going home and trying to forget about it-if ur job is mental it taxes u 24/7

What do you mean by has no external input? If you mean others who agree then of course its not gonna have that, because very few people have led a similar kind of life i have, but i KNOW how hard life really is. I only speak from personal experience, and what my life has made me into.

Just FYI though, there are some that agree with me som im not alone.

What i kinda ment by external input, or lack of is that u dont tailor ur point, or rethink it after listening to the discussion (or so it appears)-essentially making the act of discussion moot.

You mean change my opinion? Why on earth would someone do that? Its my opinion, and if i think the strike is retarded then my opinion obviously isnt going to change due to my very opinionated nature. No one has said anything so far that has made enough sense to change my opinion on the matter, no offense to anyone.

Im stubborn, and set in my ways so i wont change, and this is my stance on the situation and im sticking to my guns. (unlike some pople who flip-flop on everything, i dont do that) IMO, its a sign of a strong character.

Changing your mind after learning new facts is not flip flopping.

Professor Smooth wrote:Changing your mind after learning new facts is not flip flopping.

True but i havnt learnt any new facts, i still dont consider writing harder than hard physical labor.

Professor Smooth wrote:Changing your mind after learning new facts is not flip flopping.

Actually i think being big enough to accept others opinions is a pretty great sign of character.

Plus if there is no chance of change why discuss? U may as well build a spambtot to post for ya!

GrimSqueaker wrote:Actually i think being big enough to accept others opinions is a pretty great sign of character.

Yes it is.

Unfortunately this forum seems to be lacking characters.

Burn wrote:

GrimSqueaker wrote:Actually i think being big enough to accept others opinions is a pretty great sign of character.

Yes it is.

Unfortunately this forum seems to be lacking characters.

Maybe i could draw a few new ones?

GrimSqueaker wrote:

Burn wrote:

GrimSqueaker wrote:Actually i think being big enough to accept others opinions is a pretty great sign of character.

Yes it is.

Unfortunately this forum seems to be lacking characters.

Maybe i could draw a few new ones?

Nah please dont.

And why is everyone so adamant to change everyone? isn't that a bit....a dunno...a sign of a control freak? You cant change people, especially when they are stubborn assholes like me.

Sorry about bringing up something that has supposedly down but I just had to point this out.

I just dont believe (while i know it can be hard) that simply sitting down and typing at a computer can even compare to breaking your back, ripping your muscles and griding your bones-physical labor. I have tried writing, and i sucked at it, but it wasn't nearly as hard. Like i didn't go home sweating and smelling like a pig and covered in all manner of dirt with blood and scratches all over my body. (nothing serious but accidents always happen in such an environment)

Well, do you think anybody is going to pay you for what you wrote? Writing isn't the same as just writing. Nobody is going to pay a writer that sucks.

thats a fair point Iodel, and in response to Sonray i dont think people are trying to change u as a person.....just open ur eyes to an alternate opinions here and there.

ANd like i said unless u are at least open to the possibility of someone else making a good point and are willing to take in all sides of a discussion, doing any of this becomes nothing more than a ranting ego massage

lodelco wrote:Sorry about bringing up something that has supposedly down but I just had to point this out.

I just dont believe (while i know it can be hard) that simply sitting down and typing at a computer can even compare to breaking your back, ripping your muscles and griding your bones-physical labor. I have tried writing, and i sucked at it, but it wasn't nearly as hard. Like i didn't go home sweating and smelling like a pig and covered in all manner of dirt with blood and scratches all over my body. (nothing serious but accidents always happen in such an environment)

Well, do you think anybody is going to pay you for what you wrote? Writing isn't the same as just writing. Nobody is going to pay a writer that sucks.

No, but i never expected anyone to pay for it. It was just some stupid little story i wrote up when i was a kid as i was bored at the time.

And do you think i am a complete moron or something? Please dont insult my intelligence like that again, i know someone isnt going to pay a writer that sucks or has no talent, writers like that dont get the opportunity to be paid for what they produce anyway. (although judging by some Hollywood scripts this isnt entirely true but i digress)

GrimSqueaker wrote:thats a fair point Iodel, and in response to Sonray i dont think people are trying to change u as a person.....just open ur eyes to an alternate opinions here and there.

ANd like i said unless u are at least open to the possibility of someone else making a good point and are willing to take in all sides of a discussion, doing any of this becomes nothing more than a ranting ego massage

No, what people want me to do is accept that writing can be harder the physical labor, which IN MY OPINION it doesn't even come close.

To be honest, at this point i simply don't care anymore. I think its hypocritical to say that im not willing to accept "alternate opinions" but neither is anyone else on here willing to accept the possibility that slogging your guts out and wearing your fingers down to the bone (quite literally sometimes) is harder then sitting down in an air conditioned room typing up a story on a computer.

Thats a double standard, and you are just being hypocritical at this point so don't lecture me about accepting alternate opinions or "opening my eyes" until you are all willing to do so yourselves.

Thats all im saying on the matter from now on since this "ranting ego massage" (which i find rich coming from you Grim) is obviously not going to have any sort of conclusion, unless of course people just all bite their tongues and shut up about it like im going to do.

I could be wrong but i am pretty sure several people have said that indeed yes working hard physically does indeed suck-people are willing to accept that.....

...although from the sounds of it u seem to have no actual experience of hard mental labor so perhaps u need to give those who have genuinely and professionally experienced both the benefit of the doubt.

I dont think i have actually given my opinion yet on the actual matter. And though i have done many sucky jobs i havent done any more physical than stock room management. But i will say that i dont see how a job no mater how physically draining can ever compare to one that is mentally taxing, that u cant leave behind adn keeps u up at night.
As some of you might know i have recently finished working in a childrens prison, it was one of the most frightening and rewarding experiences of my life. What i learned from those children and what i read in their files will give me many sleepless nights to come i assure u-give me backbreaking labor any day, at least bruises heal.

I think this depends greatly on your definition of "harder".

Physical work is grueling, to be sure. I've never done "hard" labor, but I've done physical "grunt" work before. It's tiring, sometimes painful, and often thankless work.

But writing (and creative work in general) is not "easy". The physical act of pen on paper or fingers on keyboard may be easy, but the mental/emotional effort is not.

I've been involving in various projects of singing, writing, and drawing in my lifetime. If you want to be good it takes a lot of practice, study, and mental discipline. Furthermore, good creative art requires pouring your emotion and passion into your work, which *can* be very draining.

I've had concerts where all I did was stand and sing for a couple hours, and I'd still be as drained as if I'd just spent a shift cleaning or doing the stock work. The mind is not separate from the body; when you put your soul into your creative work, it can *definitely* make your body feel tired, too.

And writing, at least, can be rather thankless work, at least on TV and movies. I mean, think about it. Directors, actors, and producers are usually big names... but when's the last time you heard of a well-known screenwriter who didn't also fill one of those better-known hats?

In the end, I think comparing physical labor to creative work is pretty much comparing apples and oranges. Neither is "easy" at all... they both require their own set of skills and tax aspects of the body and soul, and they're both crucial for different reasons.

From personal experience, my brother is a very educated man who works alot as a landscaper. In the summer, he works with his hands, does heavy lifting, builds and fixes stuff and generally does all the hard physical labour you would expect from a landscaper.

Now, he's doing research and starting to write a book for a research institution for our local university.

And I've never seen him more tired, exhausted and generally worn-out. He is forced to work mornings, afternoons, evenings and weekends just to meet deadlines, and has to spent a large amount of time in either dusty old archives or in a tiny little office with nothing but a lamp and a laptop. He is a very good writer, but it takes much more out of him than heavy lifting ever could.

He has honestly told me he prefers the physical labour.

Take from that what you will.