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Hey Will, did I write the entry for the Classics Cliff? I'm trying to remember.

And this was a good list! But I agree, we need more pure Cliffjumper toys

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carytheone wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

carytheone wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:I'm also surprised that WFC Cliffjumper isn't on the list. Sure it's another Bee repaint, but it's a damn good figure, and the only Cliffjumper I ever owned.

Probably because - https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... oys/36711/

I never got this. Why people have such a hard time transforming that mold? I don't have much patience myself and I always transformed my WFC Bee with ease and glee.

Emerje wrote:2) War for Cybertron Cliffjumper - I don't really understand the dislike for the mold, I never had any trouble with it. The dark red with yellow highlights is such a great look.

I don't get the complaints for this mold either. It and the TF Prime figures is what got me into collecting. I remember the WfC Bee and Lineback Prime were both marked level 4 back when they still did that, and the "complexity" is one of the things I like about it. Isn't that one of the reasons why MP is collected? I've never thought it was a challenge though. The only complaint I can see would be from the scale fanatics as he is a big boy, but that's never bothered me either. I'm still on the fence about getting the CliffyJ version because that red is so glorious.

Emerje wrote:Straight Bumblebee repaints have no place on my list, feels like an insult to Cliffjumper. So here's my list.

I agree as they are not really Cliffjumper toys as much as they are just red Bee toys

Thank you for compiling the comments so I dont have to.

For me personally, I loved the WFC BEE for his weapons and transformation, and had bo problem there, but its the proportions of that Turtle Shell of a backpack on stick-thin gangly legs. Not only does it look wierd to me, but on my Bee the hip
Joints are wearing loose already and I'm pretty sure its the obese torso. They could easily have moved that shell kibble to the lo wer leg the way Animated Bee did and fixed both issues.

As to Energon Cliffjumper, I totally forgot that was a thing hut for me, that mold wasnt owned until they did Beachcomber.
Transformers Energon Beachcomber (Overdrive) Gallery
Better colors and the alt mode better fits the character.

The best car former is PRIME Wheeljack DELUXE,he doesn't have enormous shoulders,the second version has bad arms(i said earlier it's inferior but i feel indifferent now).

Jeddostotle7 wrote:

Ultra Markus wrote:[here is to hoping that they somehow can get an MP version of Cliffjumper sometime in the future

That brings up a dilemma - if a Masterpiece Cliffjumper would be made, would his vehicle mode be a realistically-proportioned Porsche 924, or the superdeformed penny racer one of the toy and cartoon?

If the car company and the toy company can't come to terms with each other
Maybe they should move on and make it some other car type

Ultra Markus wrote:

Jeddostotle7 wrote:

Ultra Markus wrote:[here is to hoping that they somehow can get an MP version of Cliffjumper sometime in the future

That brings up a dilemma - if a Masterpiece Cliffjumper would be made, would his vehicle mode be a realistically-proportioned Porsche 924, or the superdeformed penny racer one of the toy and cartoon?

If the car company and the toy company can't come to terms with each other
Maybe they should move on and make it some other car type

And then the hardcore fans will have none of it and will go REEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Ultra Markus wrote:

Jeddostotle7 wrote:

Ultra Markus wrote:[here is to hoping that they somehow can get an MP version of Cliffjumper sometime in the future

That brings up a dilemma - if a Masterpiece Cliffjumper would be made, would his vehicle mode be a realistically-proportioned Porsche 924, or the superdeformed penny racer one of the toy and cartoon?

If the car company and the toy company can't come to terms with each other
Maybe they should move on and make it some other car type

And then the hardcore fans will have none of it and will go REEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

I'd love to see the penny racer style in any line and I wish MP Bee would have taken the same route. If Takara can get the license they'll go real life accurate on the car and toon accurate on the bot. Which makes total sense.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:A Cliffjumper head on the TR Bumblebee mold would be good.

As much as I'd hate to see Cliff be another redeco of a Bee mold, that would work very well with just a few tweeks.


I guess some bots will always just be second potato

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Ultra Markus wrote:

Jeddostotle7 wrote:

Ultra Markus wrote:[here is to hoping that they somehow can get an MP version of Cliffjumper sometime in the future

That brings up a dilemma - if a Masterpiece Cliffjumper would be made, would his vehicle mode be a realistically-proportioned Porsche 924, or the superdeformed penny racer one of the toy and cartoon?

If the car company and the toy company can't come to terms with each other
Maybe they should move on and make it some other car type

And then the hardcore fans will have none of it and will go REEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

well to be honest i would rather they came up with something thats similar than nothing at all
but if i was so inclined there are 3rd party options that will do just fine

Flashwave wrote:For me personally, I loved the WFC BEE for his weapons and transformation, and had bo problem there, but its the proportions of that Turtle Shell of a backpack on stick-thin gangly legs.

The backpack never really bothered me, probably because of the sharp curve on it and despite the size it's barely noticeable from the front. The skinny thighs aren't all that bad and both Bee's and Cliff's original figures had them so just think of it as a throwback.

Emerje

Emerje wrote:The skinny thighs aren't all that bad
Emerje

EVERY Transformers ever have the "skinny thighs". It's a TF staple for transformations. The only one who don't have those are shellformer fembots.

Thighs are normally the biggest part in a human leg. I wonder if there's a transformers out there with a genuine transformation (no part-forming, no shell-forming) who have legs with human proportions? Meaning no giant boots and no skinny thighs.

william-james88 wrote:I truly believe that this is the best car former we have ever had. I hope you'll pardon me with quoting what I wrote when I crowned it as such but I can't say more than I already have.

And now I know for certain we well never agree on anything because I actually think this ain't even an appealing Transformer figure never mind the best car former ever (I mean, seriously???) Car form is alright but rather dull but the robot is absolutely hideous. A horrible design all over. The later Prime Cliffjumper looks a fair bit better (still an ugly robot but better shapes and proportions all round). That Legion class toy there ain't great either (those legs are pretty poor especially but the blocky torso and shoulderpads just look terrible).


Hm, not sure what I'd class the best Cliffjumper toy. Never really gave a damn about the character in any iteration and in a lot of cases neither did Hasbro. I owned both the Classics and 2007 movie versions and they were good toys but yeah, just red Bumblebees with nothing to really make him stand out as unique. They could have at least given the Classics figure his usual head (like the upgrade kit did) but nah they couldn't be bothered. Cliffjumper's just doomed to be Bee's poorly treated clone forever.

well beiing most of the toys you put up are straight up bumble repaints i fail to find this list any good...in that case a much better in robot mode would be the MP red bee... regardless i feel when you are compparing figures, repaints of another successful figure is garbage...lets see more original models, not repaints

Well, Classics was an experimental line that Hasbro didn't estimate would be a huge seller at the time, so there were limits to what Hasbro was willing to invest and put out. Of course, when it proceeded to blow them away by largely selling like hotcakes they merrily jumped in with both feet from the 2008 Universe line onward.

GDO Cliffjumper is my Classics Cliffjumper. Now and forever! There are things about it I don't like, but it's uniquely him and not just a BB clone, so to me that makes him the best. But the fact is, there just isn't any real competition for him to go up against.

Classics Cliffy is, to me, representative of the entire problem. He's a great toy. A great Bumblebee toy. But he doesn't even have a unique head. And even I got a 3rd party head, those came much later and the car is still not unique and Cliffjumper - the G1 version which is the only one I care about - just isn't Bumblebee. So, even when there was a cheaper new heard for him I just couldn't go for it.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:GDO Cliffjumper is my Classics Cliffjumper. Now and forever! There are things about it I don't like, but it's uniquely him and not just a BB clone, so to me that makes him the best. But the fact is, there just isn't any real competition for him to go up against.

Classics Cliffy is, to me, representative of the entire problem. He's a great toy. A great Bumblebee toy. But he doesn't even have a unique head. And even I got a 3rd party head, those came much later and the car is still not unique and Cliffjumper - the G1 version which is the only one I care about - just isn't Bumblebee. So, even when there was a cheaper new heard for him I just couldn't go for it.

Did you try removing Bumblebee's spoiler to make the car modes look different?

Here's the problem: While Bumblebee and Cliffjumper weren't identical in their G1 forms, they did have identical engineering and proportions; the biggest distinguishing factors were their heads and their altmodes (Bee being a marginally chibified "Baja" Bug and CJ being a heavily chibified Porsche 924 with a spoiler). The need to genericize altmodes in most modern lines is an enormous wrench in the works to the latter distinction.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:GDO Cliffjumper is my Classics Cliffjumper. Now and forever! There are things about it I don't like, but it's uniquely him and not just a BB clone, so to me that makes him the best. But the fact is, there just isn't any real competition for him to go up against.

I've always found the Generations Deluxe Bumblebee to be a good match for that mold:


Transformers Generations Bumblebee Gallery

Ultra Markus wrote:

Jeddostotle7 wrote:

Ultra Markus wrote:[here is to hoping that they somehow can get an MP version of Cliffjumper sometime in the future

That brings up a dilemma - if a Masterpiece Cliffjumper would be made, would his vehicle mode be a realistically-proportioned Porsche 924, or the superdeformed penny racer one of the toy and cartoon?

If the car company and the toy company can't come to terms with each other
Maybe they should move on and make it some other car type

Since Takara has to be working out Licensing for MP Jazz with Porsche. I mean he's one of the last '84 Autobot cars (deluxe) left for MP, its not a stretch to think they would toss in CLiffjumper there for an accurate alt mode license. Also having acquired Bumblebee's bug alt mode license from VW, it can't be too difficult to secure a couple of licenses from a company owned by VW.

Also since they have yet to go for non realistic and licensed vehicles modes for MP and Bumblebee being a realistic Bug, its difficult to think they'd just toss a chibi MP out there with Cliffjumper.

This brings up another question. With only Trailbreaker, Jazz and Mirage left from the original Autobot Cars for an MP, who gets a shot first? Also is a Licensed Ligier JS11 even possible for Mirage at this point? Who owns the design rights for the car now?

Overcracker wrote:With only Trailbreaker, Jazz and Mirage left from the original Autobot Cars for an MP, who gets a shot first?

Trailbreaker. Thats what Takara said in an interview.

VioMeTriX wrote:lets see more original models, not repaints

Are there 5 distinct cliffjumper molds?

Carnivius_Prime wrote:And now I know for certain we well never agree on anything because I actually think this ain't even an appealing Transformer figure never mind the best car former ever (I mean, seriously???)

What do you think is the best car former ever?
And I knew a while back our tastes were different, your tastes are different from the majority of the people on TF Fan sites. Nothing wrong with that of course. And thanks for the quote, my tense is wrong, I realize now I had written this to go with another list which didnt get finished in time.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:Hey Will, did I write the entry for the Classics Cliff? I'm trying to remember.
And this was a good list! But I agree, we need more pure Cliffjumper toys

Hell yeah we do. And yes, you did write that entry, you sent it as a message. But dont worry, we both have been writing a lot and these lists take time to compile. So now you know how i feel when you wrote to me you had completed that top 5 turncoats list and I was like "what is that?"

Nathaniel Prime wrote:Great list as always Will! I think my list would be the same, except probably I would replace Classics Cliff with WFC Cliff, that design is more appealing to me I guess. A suggestion for a list would be a second part of ranking the Studio Series figures, ranking all of wave 2 for example.

Thanks Nathaniel! Yeah, Classics Cliff and WFC Cliff are rather interchangeable I guess but it came down to the mold use and I much preffer the classics mold over WFC. I find WFC quite annoying to put back into car mode. As for Studio Series, ranking for wave 1 worked well since you had the leaders. The series didnt have as much new stuff going forward in various sizes. And we did get lots of repaints after that, so its not as obvious or fun to rank. I might do a best Studio Series 2019 list or I might wait till this toy series is done with its current numbering and do a top 5 about that.

william-james88 wrote:

VioMeTriX wrote:lets see more original models, not repaints

Are there 5 distinct cliffjumper molds?

Strictly speaking, we have:

G1
Energon
Prime FE, Prime RiD, Prime Cyberverse Legion, those three based around the same design

That's... basically it. He got demoted from unique mold, to Bumblebee co-tool. However, it is worth nothing that Hasbro has made attempts of shying away from that: Gen. Deluxe Bumblebee was retooled into Goldfire/Goldbug and Nightbeat, Legends Bumblebee into Roadburn/Chase, Prime RiD Bumblebee into Hot Shot (albeit by virtue of Cliffjumper having his own mold).

PerfectVision wrote:The best car former is PRIME Wheeljack DELUXE,he doesn't have enormous shoulders,the second version has bad arms(i said earlier it's inferior but i feel indifferent now).

Vehicon or GTFO

Is it wrong that I miss Windcharger more than Cliffjumper, and then out of the blue we got 2-3 really good Windchargers?

I would guess if we got an MP Cliffjumper though, it'd either be a re-shelled Bumble(bee) or heavily shared engineering.

I wish I had something to say other than I agree with this list. But... I agree with this list. Some great toys for Cliff, here.

SpikeyTigertron wrote:

PerfectVision wrote:The best car former is PRIME Wheeljack DELUXE,he doesn't have enormous shoulders,the second version has bad arms(i said earlier it's inferior but i feel indifferent now).

Vehicon or GTFO

He has poor head,anorexie and horrible feet(more obvious from side),don't forget to paint his visor in red.All of that is a repeat from the top transformers of all time.

This GENERATION Bee look a lot like the CYBERVERSE one.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:GDO Cliffjumper is my Classics Cliffjumper. Now and forever! There are things about it I don't like, but it's uniquely him and not just a BB clone, so to me that makes him the best. But the fact is, there just isn't any real competition for him to go up against.

I've always found the Generations Deluxe Bumblebee to be a good match for that mold:


Transformers Generations Bumblebee Gallery

There isn't much competition for GDO Cliffjumper to go up against. Not if you have "unique head" as a baseline standard anyway.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote: Did you try removing Bumblebee's spoiler to make the car modes look different?

Here's the problem: While Bumblebee and Cliffjumper weren't identical in their G1 forms, they did have identical engineering and proportions; the biggest distinguishing factors were their heads and their altmodes (Bee being a marginally chibified "Baja" Bug and CJ being a heavily chibified Porsche 924 with a spoiler). The need to genericize altmodes in most modern lines is an enormous wrench in the works to the latter distinction.

Just not good enough for me.

Anyway, I know why they made Cliffjumper an "also ran" in terms of mould use. But I don't have to like that there's not a whole lot of choices for him either. The way I see it, there's:

1) Alternity
2) GDO
3) Classics with 3rd party upgrades
4) WFC

And, just my opinion, but I hate the proportions on WFC and Alternity. And Classics is a great Bumblebee toy, but I don't want Cliff to be identical to Bee. Which really just leaves one option. Now I like GDO, although fitting it together in car mode is a pain, but I'd have preferred a bit more choice.

I don't think there's even a legends scale one with it's own head. I went and got the Targetmaster recolor and used Titans Return as Bee. Not ideal, but I gotta work with what I have.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:And, just my opinion, but I hate the proportions on WFC and Alternity. And Classics is a great Bumblebee toy, but I don't want Cliff to be identical to Bee. Which really just leaves one option. Now I like GDO, although fitting it together in car mode is a pain, but I'd have preferred a bit more choice.
I don't think there's even a legends scale one with it's own head.

I agree with all of that (with the exception of the CGO being a pain to transform) whch is why my list ended up looking this way. It does make us see just how much this character lacks in toys and yet it shows us taht he does indeed have several toys to his name (just not molds).

And no, there is no legends clased Clffjumper with his own head

This makes me wonder, which other character should I make a top list for? I have Sideswipe, Frenzy/Rumble, Bumblebee, Soundwave and Hot Rod/Rodimus in the pipeline but no one else.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:GDO Cliffjumper is my Classics Cliffjumper. Now and forever! There are things about it I don't like, but it's uniquely him and not just a BB clone, so to me that makes him the best. But the fact is, there just isn't any real competition for him to go up against.

I've always found the Generations Deluxe Bumblebee to be a good match for that mold:


Transformers Generations Bumblebee Gallery

There isn't much competition for GDO Cliffjumper to go up against. Not if you have "unique head" as a baseline standard anyway.

More as a "Companion Piece", really.