Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[Emerje]

But then why was defensor an exclusive?

Maybe they saw the demand for Defensor and realised they could sell a ton more if they don't make it exclusive?

No. Firstly, Defensor was not an exclusive everywhere, just an exclusive in japan. There are thousands of Defensors out there and he is still readily available everywhere... but for a price.

That's like saying SDCC exclusives aren't exclusives because you can buy them from Hasbro Toy Shop and scalpers. The only store that sells Defensor (and Convoy Grand Prime and Grand Galvatron) in Japan is the Takara Tomy Mall. They charge the same price as the regular retail figures, but only ship within Japan so importers have to pay full price (15,000JPY or about US$128) plus tax (8% so 16,200 or about US$139) plus shipping so we end up paying US$160 or so to get them (more if the store doesn't offer free shipping). I don't know exactly how the coin system works in Asia, but even with the coin Robot Kingdom is calling these TTM Exclusives and they are definitely not sold at mass retail. Transformers Asia says the coin releases are only sold at "selected stores in Asia" which would also indicate exclusivity even if shared.

With the Combaticons not being exclusives we can get the retailer discounts that we can't from the TTM exclusives. Now instead of paying US$160 we're closer to US$96. That's what makes them being non-exclusive so much better for us.

Emerje

Hyperbole will get you nowhere Emerge, comparing what I wrote to scalpers doesnt help the conversation.

There are TWO versions of these TTMall exclusives, and as the transformers reporter for tomopop you should be aware of this. And being available in more than on place (as you confirmed) mkes it no longer a srict TTMall exclusive. While one may have a limit of 2000, the other, from Hasbro Asia, does not. This is what I was trying to say, maybe I was not clear.

Here is proof: for legal reasons, this is what TFSoure says about Ramjet, a supposed "ttmall exclusive":

This highly sought after masterpiece brings the popular seeker Ramjet to the Takara Tomy lineup with an all new color scheme and exclusive to TakaraTomy Mall! This is the Asian market release of this product

Notice their wording. There are 2 SEPERATE releases/versions, automatically making this figure no longer exclusive.

A true TTMall exclusive would mean that the ONLY place to get your copy would be from TTMall. But that isnt true. Thats just he only place you can get it in japan. And they use that slogan willy nilly to trick buyers into thinking it is more limited. TTMall tells you how many units it is limited to while Hasbro Asia does not.

Hasbro Asia produces as many units as they want snd sell it throughout the world at all online outlets.

SO the figure no logner becomes exclusive in a worldwide context (while still being only at one retailer in Japan). And thus I repeat what I say:

No. Firstly, Defensor was not an exclusive everywhere, just an exclusive in japan. There are thousands of Defensors out there and he is still readily available everywhere... but for a price.

And that price, is the Hasbro Asia price. A price which was confirmed by an exec to be based on the demand of asian collectors and not the manufacturing cost of the product. And the legal writing confirms that it is a seperate release that has no alloted limited number of units.

The only thing exclusive about a TTMall release, is the price since only in Japan can you get the actual Japan release which doesnt come witha coin but comes with a cheaper price.

OK, I don't have time to respond to all of your points in the two posts just now (maybe this weekend, I don't have a lot of free time at the moment), but I did want to respond to a couple points.

First off what I said wasn't hyperbole. Stores like BBTS and TFSource based in the US are not first party dealers working directly with Takara Tomy or Hasbro Asia to get items, they work through middle men suppliers that buy items and ship them out in bulk at a higher price.

Primary exception is Robot Kingdom which is based in Hong Kong (I think, but China anyway) so they do sell the Asian releases directly and can sell lower because of this. I actually did acknowledge that there is a separate Asian release for these exclusives, you somehow glossed over that part, but they are definitely not for normal mass retail like the non-exclusives in Japan are. Everything I've read says these are only available at select stores.

Also I'm pretty sure Takara Tomy actually does handle exclusive items in Asia themselves, it's likely the loophole that lead to the creation of the coins in the first place. I think the only place Hasbro sells something with a Takara Tomy logo on it is in Australia.

I'll comment more when I find time.

Emerje

[Evil Eye]

I have faith Blast Off will look a lot better than these blurry pics. Even if it isn't perfect, it's still 1000% improvement over a Slingshot dunked in dookie dye.

As expected, you are all still eating it up, even if it looks like utter trash.

It's just blurry pics and you base your decision/statement on blurry pics? How you know its trash?

But if you are already biased for a certain toyline or product, guess there's no convincing you to not snipe without basis. A pity you won't have the opportunity to enjoy the next mold.

Btw TT gets a 4 out of 5 in effort.

1. New mold for Blastoff
2. At least a bit of a retool for the rotor blades of Vortex ( wished it were a new body for the copter)plus incorporating them as a melee weapon like that in Car Robots.

Love that shuttle ! Call it trash if you want but one mans trash is another mans treasure. Enjoy your brown slingshot and keep pretending its blast off. Maybe you can use fine sandpaper to remove his nose and mouth and give him a face plate. Im gonna drop the cash and have me a real blast off.

Silly X, didn't you read Blastoff's bio? He's canonically a jet now! Takara got his vehicle mode wrong!

Nah bro. So some corporate boob in Hasbro orders a repaint to save money and the writers attempt to legitimize the decision with a lame bio. Buy into it if you like. You know the real reason no matter how hard they sugarcoat it. Dont compare new CHUG molds to a lazy, penny pinching repaint. And since youre big on anything "official" consider this:

Takara just officially delegitimized Hasbros attempt to cheap out on the character. Even if Hasbros attempt was supposed to be a "NEO" take on the character, Takara basically called them out and said "silly Hasbro, repaints are for kids". Dont try to compare this to legends vs. deluxe groove. Its not the same thing because in that controversy Hasbro gave us new molds but made a decision based on their interpretation of scale. In the case of blast off, they just made a decision based on utter cheapness.

Someone's salty today.

Honestly I agree that Blast Off just being a repaint of Quickslinger was lazy as hell...but he should still be a jet. A space shuttle has no place on a military team. I'm buying the UW set anyway (eventually) but only because I want to keep my collection fairly diverse with as little mold-repetition as possible. And if a better new mold comes up somewhere else (say, a 3P CW compatible jet mold) I'll get that and sell off Takara Blast Off. Either that or get the Thrust that comes with Grand Galvatron and give him new, less Air Raid-ish wings (they pop off on mushroom pegs IIRC). Or, like I say, make a new character from a modified Brawl and have Shattered Glass Alpha Bravo Vortex as the only flying member.

[megatronus]

Blast Off is one of those molds where a clever deco will help offset the barrel-chested proportions.

[Evil Eye]

Blast Off is one of those molds where a clever deco will help offset the barrel-chested proportions.

I'm inclined to agree actually. I can't wait to see him in colour either way.

[Evil Eye]

Meanwhile, the Protectobots are rocking a flippin' armored personnel carrier.

Well an APC makes a lot of sense really. For one, the police (well, SWAT) use armoured cars for high-risk situations (terrorist incidents and the like) so it's definitely an emergency vehicle. And for another, it doesn't get much more protective than several tonnes worth of armour plating and weaponry. After all, if you were stuck in the middle of a Decepticon attack, who would you rather see coming? A dinky little motorcycle or a sodding great big armoured car?

Also, he breaks up the monotonous sea of red and white with...indigo, silver and white.

[Microraptor]

I have faith Blast Off will look a lot better than these blurry pics. Even if it isn't perfect, it's still 1000% improvement over a Slingshot dunked in dookie dye.

As expected, you are all still eating it up, even if it looks like utter trash.

It's just blurry pics and you base your decision/statement on blurry pics? How you know its trash?

But if you are already biased for a certain toyline or product, guess there's no convincing you to not snipe without basis. A pity you won't have the opportunity to enjoy the next mold.

Btw TT gets a 4 out of 5 in effort.

1. New mold for Blastoff
2. At least a bit of a retool for the rotor blades of Vortex ( wished it were a new body for the copter)plus incorporating them as a melee weapon like that in Car Robots.

Love that shuttle ! Call it trash if you want but one mans trash is another mans treasure. Enjoy your brown slingshot and keep pretending its blast off. Maybe you can use fine sandpaper to remove his nose and mouth and give him a face plate. Im gonna drop the cash and have me a real blast off.

Silly X, didn't you read Blastoff's bio? He's canonically a jet now! Takara got his vehicle mode wrong!

Nah bro. So some corporate boob in Hasbro orders a repaint to save money and the writers attempt to legitimize the decision with a lame bio. Buy into it if you like. You know the real reason no matter how hard they sugarcoat it. Dont compare new CHUG molds to a lazy, penny pinching repaint. And since youre big on anything "official" consider this:

Takara just officially delegitimized Hasbros attempt to cheap out on the character. Even if Hasbros attempt was supposed to be a "NEO" take on the character, Takara basically called them out and said "silly Hasbro, repaints are for kids". Dont try to compare this to legends vs. deluxe groove. Its not the same thing because in that controversy they Hasbro gave us new molds but made a decision based on their interpretation of scale. In the case of blast off, they just made a decision based on utter cheapness.

Or, quite possibly, they decided that having a SPACE SHUTTLE on a team of combat vehicles was silly. Scale also has something to do with this, because a space shuttle is much bigger than the other vehicles.

So youre telling me Hasbro thought the shuttle was so "silly" that changing it was worthy of their attention, but not worthy of a new jet mold? Or even a new head for that matter? Cmon bro...you know it was cheapness. There are several "in scale" high altitude spy jets that Hasbro could have used for the "blast off" character if it was truly about scale. Hasbro could have delivered a new mold that was in scale. Use of the slingshot head debunks any theory that it wasnt a penny pinching move on behalf of hasbro.

Yeah, it pains me to say you are correct. I wish they pulled a Streetwise and reshelled the guy.

[Desslok2201]

I know I'm in the minority on this one but I love it- I do think it looks a bit awkward in the arms but I think that will seem less obvious when he gets some color. People were complaining a lot about MP Tracks when he was only in his grey prototype phase and that worked out nicely. I'm tempted to preorder now, but I still want to see Bruticus in full color. This is a major step in the right direction, though

[TF-fan kev777]

I'm not sure where everyone is getting that Blast Off is a reverse Aerialbot. To me his legs look like the Rook transformation, look at the hollow insides, I think they each fold up to hide the waist. I definitely think the tailfin is a partsformer like Cyclonus' little side fins. It appears that the nosecone folds into the cockpit part and that slides down and forward making room for the shoulders to move up (also forming a pretty good boob rack). I don't think the mold is too bad, but not enough to go in for the TT version since I'm impatient and already have the 4 Habro limbs. I'll hold out hope that Hasbro comes to their senses and releases Big Groove and Shuttle Blast Off in a similar way to Slingshot and Wildrider, so Rook and Takeoff can become Galvatronus'.

[Evil Eye]

Oh hell no that tail fin had better not partsform. That would be lazy engineering at its worst if that's true.

[william-james88]

OK, I don't have time to respond to all of your points in the two posts just now (maybe this weekend, I don't have a lot of free time at the moment), but I did want to respond to a couple points.

First off what I said wasn't hyperbole. Stores like BBTS and TFSource based in the US are not first party dealers working directly with Takara Tomy or Hasbro Asia to get items, they work through middle men suppliers that buy items and ship them out in bulk at a higher price.

Primary exception is Robot Kingdom which is based in Hong Kong (I think, but China anyway) so they do sell the Asian releases directly and can sell lower because of this. I actually did acknowledge that there is a separate Asian release for these exclusives, you somehow glossed over that part, but they are definitely not for normal mass retail like the non-exclusives in Japan are. Everything I've read says these are only available at select stores.

Also I'm pretty sure Takara Tomy actually does handle exclusive items in Asia themselves, it's likely the loophole that lead to the creation of the coins in the first place. I think the only place Hasbro sells something with a Takara Tomy logo on it is in Australia.

I'll comment more when I find time.

Emerje

We are not too far off from what each of us are saying, and I think we agree on most points, just saying it differently. And I can totally concede that as BBTS and TFSource can only get Takara products from middlemen, that would also be the case with any products from hasbro asia.

I can tell you one thing though, the distribution of TT products in Hong Kong is handled by Hasbro Asia since every product found there is the asian release. I really believe that Takara only handles distribution in Japan and nowhere else (hence why they rely on hasbro Asia to distribute their products). And in that way, any TTMall exclusive is no longer truly exclusive in the world since the Asia version is also available in it's own way (whether it is also restricted or not). That was my main point.
And I also wanted to point out that while a TTMall exclusive may have a numbered limit of units, that number does not include the Asia release. Hence why I find the description on some sites kind of sleazy, confusing fans into thinking their product is more limited than it really is. TFSource writing they are selling a TTMall exclusive is like TRU in Canada writing on their Star Wars BB8 listing that its a Target exclusive.

That was pretty much all I really meant in all this. You are welcome to reply as I love talking about the intricacies of how exclusive something is or not (and the economy behind that) but please know that we are on the same side here.

Or, quite possibly, they decided that having a SPACE SHUTTLE on a team of combat vehicles was silly. Scale also has something to do with this, because a space shuttle is much bigger than the other vehicles.

It's definitely a cost based decision first with the scale logic coming in second because, as Hasbro's protectobots proved, if Hasbro's deal was only caring about scale, they would have made their Slingshot more distinctive than just being a straight up repaint.

[Cyberpath]

Just transformed Devastar afteralmost 14 days of staring at the individual 'cons. Simply awesome. But the way the chest wing armor attaches to the treads of Bonecrusher and Scavenger.......future breakage.......too much stress.

Better late than never.

Transforming Devastator's upper body was the biggest challenge. But if you transform every part exactly right (and I mean exactly right; like, 100%, seriously) then the shield and everything fit famously.

I think he looks good. They even put the fin on his back like his character-model. (Do you think there's some "partforming" there, like Brawl's gun?)

It's refreshing to see a new mold. The repaint/retool in CW/UW was kind of an overkill. It's one thing in the same group of jets/cars.. but across factions? And passing a brown Slingshot as Blast Off was the line's least inspired move, I think.

Those are my sentiments as well. I feel he looks as good/bad as any other deluxe in the line and I am just happy to get some diversity. And plus, since I dont have Rook, I will finally get to play with the hulk hands.

Takara also gets extra points for not giving Blast Off a generic peg torso. Makes him look believable as a stand-alone figure, too.

[Shockwave7]

Aw, man... I REALLY hope they sell this Blastoff (and their 4-rotor Vortex) independent of the box set...

[Rated X]

But then why was defensor an exclusive?

Maybe they saw the demand for Defensor and realised they could sell a ton more if they don't make it exclusive?

No. Firstly, Defensor was not an exclusive everywhere, just an exclusive in japan. There are thousands of Defensors out there and he is still readily available everywhere... but for a price.

That's like saying SDCC exclusives aren't exclusives because you can buy them from Hasbro Toy Shop and scalpers. The only store that sells Defensor (and Convoy Grand Prime and Grand Galvatron) in Japan is the Takara Tomy Mall. They charge the same price as the regular retail figures, but only ship within Japan so importers have to pay full price (15,000JPY or about US$128) plus tax (8% so 16,200 or about US$139) plus shipping so we end up paying US$160 or so to get them (more if the store doesn't offer free shipping). I don't know exactly how the coin system works in Asia, but even with the coin Robot Kingdom is calling these TTM Exclusives and they are definitely not sold at mass retail. Transformers Asia says the coin releases are only sold at "selected stores in Asia" which would also indicate exclusivity even if shared.

With the Combaticons not being exclusives we can get the retailer discounts that we can't from the TTM exclusives. Now instead of paying US$160 we're closer to US$96. That's what makes them being non-exclusive so much better for us.

Emerje

Do you really believe "Takara Tomy Mall" is a brick and mortar store in Japan? Can someone show me a picture of this magical Disney-like store that only sells Takara products? How many of them are there? What are the names of the malls are they located in?

I dont think the term "Takara Tomy Mall" has anything to do with brick and mortar stores or even malls for that matter. I think its just a monkier they use in Japan that means only certain hobby stores will carry it, not toy stores. And of course the hobby stores are going to jack up the cost to collector prices and set the standard all online retailers will follow.

I think earlier one member nailed it when he pointed out "Hasbro Asia" made UW Defensor into a retail product and are doing the same thing with MP Ramjet. I wouldnt be suprised if the only difference between a "Takara Tomy Mall" exclusive and a "Hasbro Asia" release is the packaging in most cases. Remember the factory is in China, not Japan. So technically, the Japanese can choose to segregate whichever molds they please and label them as "exclusives" to jack up the cost when distributing them throughout Japan.

I think we as non-Japanese collectors loose a lot in translation when we try to interpret what they do and why they do it. This is my personal opinion on the difference between the two monkiers:

Takara: Available everywhere throughout Japan in brick and mortar stores.

Takara Tomy Mall: Only sold in Japanese hobby shops for collectors at collectors prices. (kind of like E-Hobby and Millions Publishing exclusives)

[Amelie]

What are people expecting? A masterpiece? Its deluxe. A combining one at that. Its looking pretty good and we haven't even seen it high res with colour yet.

This set costs about the same as the Hasbro version. We're getting a new mold in there, too. By and large, the rest is the same as Hasbro's, save a couple of decals I'm sure.

Don't like the Shuttle? Get the Jet. Visa Versa, too. Still unhappy? Re-evaluate what you're expecting from a $15\$20 figure at that size or pay treble and get a unofficial one.

[Hellscream9999]

So, wait, how exactly does the tail fin get from his ankles to the other side of his body in bot mode, also, where on earth does his nosecone go

Oh hell no that tail fin had better not partsform. That would be lazy engineering at its worst if that's true.

Oh my god, the tail fin parts-forms to get to his chest you can see some 5mm ports on bruticus' wrists where the tail fin goes, it's the only explanation that make sense, as there are no hinges in sight to get it down there

[TF-fan kev777]

Looks like a new hand/foot/gun too, but honestly I think it will look a little weird as a hand with the 2 cones on the outside and the larger center piece. Of course, if you break off the 2 cones and position the arm right, you might be able to make Bruticus flip the bird.

[Hellscream9999]

Aw, man... I REALLY hope they sell this Blastoff (and their 4-rotor Vortex) independent of the box set...

You know they don't and won't

[TF-fan kev777]

So, wait, how exactly does the tail fin get from his ankles to the other side of his body in bot mode, also, where on earth does his nosecone go

Oh hell no that tail fin had better not partsform. That would be lazy engineering at its worst if that's true.

Oh my god, the tail fin parts-forms to get to his chest you can see some 5mm ports on bruticus' wrists where the tail fin goes, it's the only explanation that make sense, as there are no hinges in sight to get it down there

Actually it attaches to the back of the legs, not wrists in shuttle mode (you can still see the ports on the wrists), but definitely looks like a partsform to me.

[fenrir72]

any chance that they could retool the new Blast Off as Astrotrain?

It'll be just Astro...no Train

[Hellscream9999]

any chance that they could retool the new Blast Off as Astrotrain?

It'll be just Astro...no Train

If that's what it takes for hasbro to release it, I'm good with that (so long as it doesn't obviscate Stormbringer Astrotrains place in TR)

[bvzxa]

I have faith Blast Off will look a lot better than these blurry pics. Even if it isn't perfect, it's still 1000% improvement over a Slingshot dunked in dookie dye.

As expected, you are all still eating it up, even if it looks like utter trash.

It's just blurry pics and you base your decision/statement on blurry pics? How you know its trash?

But if you are already biased for a certain toyline or product, guess there's no convincing you to not snipe without basis. A pity you won't have the opportunity to enjoy the next mold.

Btw TT gets a 4 out of 5 in effort.

1. New mold for Blastoff
2. At least a bit of a retool for the rotor blades of Vortex ( wished it were a new body for the copter)plus incorporating them as a melee weapon like that in Car Robots.

Love that shuttle ! Call it trash if you want but one mans trash is another mans treasure. Enjoy your brown slingshot and keep pretending its blast off. Maybe you can use fine sandpaper to remove his nose and mouth and give him a face plate. Im gonna drop the cash and have me a real blast off.

I want this. Hasbro can kick a bag of rocks with the rest of the Hasbro bandwagon who loves repaints. It looks like Blast-Off to me not some brown jet lol

[Rated X]

Im ok with partsforming. Younger collectors have this idea that parts integration was born to satisfy complex minds. The truth is that it was designed to accomodate dumb kids who kept loosing small parts.

[Evil Eye]

Im ok with partsforming. Younger collectors have this idea that parts integration was born to satisfy complex minds. The truth is that it was designed to accomodate dumb kids who kept loosing small parts.

Nah. It was meant to satiate lazy engineers who couldn't be bothered engineering things properly, and lazy fans who couldn't be bothered to transform figures with more than 5 moving parts.

Perhaps you'd be better off collecting Kre-O, X. Plenty of lovely partsforming for you there.

[jogunwarrior]

I like the jet Hasbro gave us much better anyway. Don't care for this guy in either mode here.

[frogbat]

Don't mind partsformers as long as there's place in both modes to store everything.

Tbh I expected them to retool alpha bravo for this guy...