Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Official Raiden is progressing nicely.

Do we think this will lead to the team being applied to the Hasbro line, in media? Western names etc

[ZeroWolf]

No idea, we can only hope, but you know what they say about hope.

Now the interesting thing would be if they would westernize the names at this stage (should they make their way to the comics for instance)

[Sabrblade]

At this point, I believe we are well beyond the age of Hasbro deliberately changing the names of Japanese characters for the Western market. That was more of a thing during the Aaron Archer era. The John Warden era saw many Japanese characters retain their names, despite any and all sense (or lack thereof) some of their names made in English. The few that were changed during the Warden era were done so merely for Trademark and PC reasons, and likely would have been retained otherwise.

What's more, when the Ask Vector Prime Facebook was given the opportunity to finally explore the in-universe origins of the Trainbots, since their existing backstory cited them as natives to Japan, it was decided to leave their names as they were so as to better emphasize the fact that they were the first new Autobots fully built and brought to life on Earth in Japan (the Binaltech project was just new bodies for existing Autobots instead of new ones brought to life for the first time), with each named by a Japanese scientist from various Transformers series:

Doctor Ōnishi, a huge fan of vintage trains, asked that he be allowed to name the DE10 diesel locomotive. He named him Kaen, a blaze that would burn brightly in the service of Japan and all mankind. Doctor Ishihara, born and raised in Tokyo, chose to name the Tōkai-type 153 express from her home metropolis. Proud of her proficiency with martial arts, named Suiken after her favorite style of martial arts. Doctor Gō, as the youngest member of the team, was given the newest model of train to name, the 200 Series Shinkansen. He chose Yukikaze, after the wind of his native Hokkaido. Doctor Fujiyama, who was born in Kyushu, chose to name the 485-200 series engine. He named him Seizan, after the mountains of his home region. Doctor Takahashi expressed little interest in which mech she would name, and was given the EF65-1000 by default. She chose Getsuei, for the Trainbots would have the capacity to travel to the moon and beyond. Last, though certainly not least, Doctor Yoshikawa was given the honor of naming the team leader, the original Shinkansen. As a fan of military history, he decided that Shouki would be a dignified and powerful name.

For even in the Japanese fiction do their names stand out for being so intrinsically Japanese, unlike their fellow Autobots whose names sound much more alien and western to the native Japanese speaker.

[ZeroWolf]

At this point, I believe we are well beyond the age of Hasbro deliberately changing the names of Japanese characters for the Western market. That was more of a thing during the Aaron Archer era. The John Warden era saw many Japanese characters retain their names, despite any and all sense (or lack thereof) some of their names made in English. The few that were changed during the Warden era were done so merely for Trademark and PC reasons, and likely would have been retained otherwise.

What's more, when the Ask Vector Prime Facebook was given the opportunity to finally explore the in-universe origins of the Trainbots, since their existing backstory cited them as natives to Japan, it was decided to leave their names as they were so as to better emphasize the fact that they were the first new Autobots fully built and brought to life on Earth in Japan (the Binaltech project was just new bodies for existing Autobots instead of new ones brought to life for the first time), with each named by a Japanese scientist from various Transformers series:

Doctor Ōnishi, a huge fan of vintage trains, asked that he be allowed to name the DE10 diesel locomotive. He named him Kaen, a blaze that would burn brightly in the service of Japan and all mankind. Doctor Ishihara, born and raised in Tokyo, chose to name the Tōkai-type 153 express from her home metropolis. Proud of her proficiency with martial arts, named Suiken after her favorite style of martial arts. Doctor Gō, as the youngest member of the team, was given the newest model of train to name, the 200 Series Shinkansen. He chose Yukikaze, after the wind of his native Hokkaido. Doctor Fujiyama, who was born in Kyushu, chose to name the 485-200 series engine. He named him Seizan, after the mountains of his home region. Doctor Takahashi expressed little interest in which mech she would name, and was given the EF65-1000 by default. She chose Getsuei, for the Trainbots would have the capacity to travel to the moon and beyond. Last, though certainly not least, Doctor Yoshikawa was given the honor of naming the team leader, the original Shinkansen. As a fan of military history, he decided that Shouki would be a dignified and powerful name.

For even in the Japanese fiction do their names stand out for being so intrinsically Japanese, unlike their fellow Autobots whose names sound much more alien and western to the native Japanese speaker.

Thanks for sharing this Sabrblade:)

[optimeow]

In the Japanese anime, lower ranked bots called their superior by rank (e.g, Optimus is the “Shireikan”, an equivalent of Commander). Only higher rank bots like Optimus call all other bots by their name. This is consistent with Asian culture where we address our elders and superiors by position rather than name.

Japanese Transformer toys (esp G1) have their rank and name on the packaging. This has not been carried over to Western releases as far as I am aware of.

At this point, I believe we are well beyond the age of Hasbro deliberately changing the names of Japanese characters for the Western market. That was more of a thing during the Aaron Archer era. The John Warden era saw many Japanese characters retain their names, despite any and all sense (or lack thereof) some of their names made in English. The few that were changed during the Warden era were done so merely for Trademark and PC reasons, and likely would have been retained otherwise.

What's more, when the Ask Vector Prime Facebook was given the opportunity to finally explore the in-universe origins of the Trainbots, since their existing backstory cited them as natives to Japan, it was decided to leave their names as they were so as to better emphasize the fact that they were the first new Autobots fully built and brought to life on Earth in Japan (the Binaltech project was just new bodies for existing Autobots instead of new ones brought to life for the first time), with each named by a Japanese scientist from various Transformers series:

Doctor Ōnishi, a huge fan of vintage trains, asked that he be allowed to name the DE10 diesel locomotive. He named him Kaen, a blaze that would burn brightly in the service of Japan and all mankind. Doctor Ishihara, born and raised in Tokyo, chose to name the Tōkai-type 153 express from her home metropolis. Proud of her proficiency with martial arts, named Suiken after her favorite style of martial arts. Doctor Gō, as the youngest member of the team, was given the newest model of train to name, the 200 Series Shinkansen. He chose Yukikaze, after the wind of his native Hokkaido. Doctor Fujiyama, who was born in Kyushu, chose to name the 485-200 series engine. He named him Seizan, after the mountains of his home region. Doctor Takahashi expressed little interest in which mech she would name, and was given the EF65-1000 by default. She chose Getsuei, for the Trainbots would have the capacity to travel to the moon and beyond. Last, though certainly not least, Doctor Yoshikawa was given the honor of naming the team leader, the original Shinkansen. As a fan of military history, he decided that Shouki would be a dignified and powerful name.

For even in the Japanese fiction do their names stand out for being so intrinsically Japanese, unlike their fellow Autobots whose names sound much more alien and western to the native Japanese speaker.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Impressive as usual, Sabr!
With such geographically specific names like that, however. I just don't see them being in the next animated show. Marketable worldwide, alongside "Bumblebee","Starscream" etc

[Sabrblade]

The full backstory:

The Raiden Initiative was a communal effort, with each scientist contributing according to their specialty. The brilliant postdoc Haruma Gō, the least-senior member of the team, was responsible for their superstructures. He also brought the fire of youth to the project. Doctor Ōnishi, the leading expert on alien energy sources, created their power grid. Doctor Ishihara, a specialist in cybernetic motivation, created their neural network and initial personality component specifications. Doctor Yoshikawa, who had spent years reverse-engineering the energy-being Kremzeek, was in charge of the creation of their weapon and communication systems. As Shibuya Manufacturing, Worldwide was providing the facilities to the Japanese government for this endeavor, Sōji also served as team leader. Doctor Fujiyama, famous for the construction of Nightbird, was responsible for their combat protocols. Finally, the mysterious Doctor Takahashi created the Heavy Series-Linkage System, necessary for them to become a gestalt warrior. So focused was her work that Doctor Yoshikawa joked that she must have seen the Trainbots in their combined form before she began, if only in a dream or vision.

There was one area where each scientist had a uniquely-defined role; each one was allowed to name one of the Trainbots. Doctor Ōnishi, a huge fan of vintage trains, asked that he be allowed to name the DE10 diesel locomotive. He named him Kaen, a blaze that would burn brightly in the service of Japan and all mankind. Doctor Ishihara, born and raised in Tokyo, chose to name the Tōkai-type 153 express from her home metropolis. Proud of her proficiency with martial arts, named Suiken after her favorite style of martial arts. Doctor Gō, as the youngest member of the team, was given the newest model of train to name, the 200 Series Shinkansen. He chose Yukikaze, after the wind of his native Hokkaido. Doctor Fujiyama, who was born in Kyushu, chose to name the 485-200 series engine. He named him Seizan, after the mountains of his home region. Doctor Takahashi expressed little interest in which mech she would name, and was given the EF65-1000 by default. She chose Getsuei, for the Trainbots would have the capacity to travel to the moon and beyond. Last, though certainly not least, Doctor Yoshikawa was given the honor of naming the team leader, the original Shinkansen. As a fan of military history, he decided that Shouki would be a dignified and powerful name.

It wouldn't surprise me if Hirofumi Ichikawa lent a hand in crafting this backstory.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Interesting. So from the backstory, they are drones/Transtectors and not Cybertronian at all?

[Sabrblade]

Interesting. So from the backstory, they are drones/Transtectors and not Cybertronian at all?

They're as alive as the Dinobots are.

And the backstory mentions their neural network and personality components (A.K.A. their minds and souls).

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Interesting. So from the backstory, they are drones/Transtectors and not Cybertronian at all?

They're as alive as the Dinobots are.

And the backstory mentions their neural network and personality components (A.K.A. their minds and souls).

Oh I see. The nebulous grey area the G1 cartoon established, with those "made" on Earth. That really doesn't mesh with the retroactive adoption of Sparks into the mythos.

[o.supreme]

This is definitely timely news. I've had Shouki pre-ordered for a while. Seeing the first picture of the next one does make me feel a bit better. However I watched emgo's review of the first Moon Studio's release yesterday, and was very envious. It's crazy to me, to think that within a month or so all 6 of their Trainbots will be out, and they will have the first (albeit unofficial) modern Raiden. It is also crazy to me that they are bigger than the official TT ones, and yet, less expensive. The transformation at least on the first one was very clean, I liked it a LOT, so much so that I dreamed about it last night!

I just really wish we could get some official comparison images of what the TT MPG Raiden combined mode size will be. Guesses are all over the place, based on vague developer comments. Same size as CW/UW Devastator or PotP Predaking would be ideal for me. Same size as all other CW/UW/PotP would be my second choice. Anything in-between smaller or larger wont work. Still, six months to wait until Shouki is officially released. I just hope it's worth it. Until then, seeing all the Moon Studio reviews (and yes I'll watch them all), is going to be rough. I could spare myself a lot of grief by just not watching them, but it's defintely a sickness that only the official MPG once released can cure.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

After that emgo review. I am strongly considering both Radiatron and Raiden. Since BW MP has seemingly gone on the backburner for whatever reason. A one-off gestalt on that level, appeals to me.

[o.supreme]

Oh I see. The nebulous grey area the G1 cartoon established, with those "made" on Earth. That really doesn't mesh with the retroactive adoption of Sparks into the mythos.

Although unofficial, I think in many fans head canon, in the 20 year time gap between S2 and TF:TM, the Dinobots would have been presented to Vector Sigma and "upgraded" to be true living beings. That would partly account for their personality differences in TF:TM.

[whacko]

This looks a lot better than what we've seen of their Shouki. A lot less kibble, and I like the pantographs on top of the train mode, it makes the train look more authrentic.

[o.supreme]

After that emgo review. I am strongly considering both Radiatron and Raiden.

If you have the funds, more power to you . I was the proud owner of an original Raiden C-131 Giftset for about 3 years (from 2004-2007). I'm sure this combiner appeals to me so much mostly because of it's lack of availability in the west. If I could get both I would, but I'm just sticking with TT MPG for now, but I do hope that everyone who gets Moon Studio's enjoys it, it is a heck of an engineering accomplishment.

[Sabrblade]

Oh I see. The nebulous grey area the G1 cartoon established, with those "made" on Earth. That really doesn't mesh with the retroactive adoption of Sparks into the mythos.

Although unofficial, I think in many fans head canon, in the 20 year time gap between S2 and TF:TM, the Dinobots would have been presented to Vector Sigma and "upgraded" to be true living beings. That would partly account for their personality differences in TF:TM.

It's more than just the Dinobots who were created without Vector Sigma: Trypticon and Metroplex were built on Earth, the Technobots were built by the super-smart Grimlock out in space inside Unicron's dead head, and in The Rebirth, Fortress Maximus and Scorponok were built on Nebulos (though, admittedly, theirs is a gray area since we don't know how much of their lives were those of Cerebros/Spike and Lord Zarak, respectively, and how much of it was their own. Their Japanese counterparts, however, were definitely Cybertronian in origin, and would have been birthed by Vector Sigma).

[o.supreme]

It's more than just the Dinobots who were created without Vector Sigma: Trypticon and Metroplex were built on Earth, the Technobots were built by the super-smart Grimlock out in space inside Unicron's dead head, and in The Rebirth, Fortress Maximus and Scorponok were built on Nebulos (though, admittedly, theirs is a gray area since we don't know how much of their lives were those of Cerebros/Spike and Lord Zarak, respectively, and how much of it was their own. Their Japanese counterparts, however, were definitely Cybertronian in origin, and would have been birthed by Vector Sigma).

Understood 100%, I was just speaking specifically about the Dinobots though. Anyway it's just another reason why a new series (in whatever media would work best, I'm not picky at this point), set in the original Marvel/Sunbow animated universe to fill in a LOT of the gaps would be great. Hey they could have taken VS off-world to grant personalities to Metroplex & Trypticon, what's the worst that could happen.

[Sabrblade]

It's more than just the Dinobots who were created without Vector Sigma: Trypticon and Metroplex were built on Earth, the Technobots were built by the super-smart Grimlock out in space inside Unicron's dead head, and in The Rebirth, Fortress Maximus and Scorponok were built on Nebulos (though, admittedly, theirs is a gray area since we don't know how much of their lives were those of Cerebros/Spike and Lord Zarak, respectively, and how much of it was their own. Their Japanese counterparts, however, were definitely Cybertronian in origin, and would have been birthed by Vector Sigma).

Understood 100%, I was just speaking specifically about the Dinobots though. Anyway it's just another reason why a new series (in whatever media would work best, I'm not picky at this point), set in the original Marvel/Sunbow animated universe to fill in a LOT of the gaps would be great. Hey they could have taken VS off-world to grant personalities to Metroplex & Trypticon, what's the worst that could happen.

Legends tackled the subject, with Wheeljack discovering the existence of his own spark hidden deep inside his personality component.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

After that emgo review. I am strongly considering both Radiatron and Raiden.

If you have the funds, more power to you . I was the proud owner of an original Raiden C-131 Giftset for about 3 years (from 2004-2007). I'm sure this combiner appeals to me so much mostly because of it's lack of availability in the west. If I could get both I would, but I'm just sticking with TT MPG for now, but I do hope that everyone who gets Moon Studio's enjoys it, it is a heck of an engineering accomplishment.

Indeed. While it would be nice to own them. It likely won't happen. Whereas I did list one retailer selling Moon Studios effort en masse with a discount. I would likely lose track of Takara's one. Plus my other collections continue to grow as my space does not. Added to that, based on the size of that foot in that review. Radiatron will already be far too big for my existing space.

It's more than just the Dinobots who were created without Vector Sigma: Trypticon and Metroplex were built on Earth, the Technobots were built by the super-smart Grimlock out in space inside Unicron's dead head, and in The Rebirth, Fortress Maximus and Scorponok were built on Nebulos (though, admittedly, theirs is a gray area since we don't know how much of their lives were those of Cerebros/Spike and Lord Zarak, respectively, and how much of it was their own. Their Japanese counterparts, however, were definitely Cybertronian in origin, and would have been birthed by Vector Sigma).

Understood 100%, I was just speaking specifically about the Dinobots though. Anyway it's just another reason why a new series (in whatever media would work best, I'm not picky at this point), set in the original Marvel/Sunbow animated universe to fill in a LOT of the gaps would be great. Hey they could have taken VS off-world to grant personalities to Metroplex & Trypticon, what's the worst that could happen.

Legends tackled the subject, with Wheeljack discovering the existence of his own spark hidden deep inside his personality component.

It would have been easier to have kept Sparks as a Beast Wars/descendants thing. Nothing from G1 prior tied into it. It just complicated things unnecessarily.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

It would have been easier to have kept Sparks as a Beast Wars/descendants thing. Nothing from G1 prior tied into it. It just complicated things unnecessarily.

Starscream threw a wrench into that from the very beginning.

[o.supreme]

So, it seems TF Source is the first site out of the gate to put up a pre-order. Of course I am going to wait for Amazon Japan but...it appears TF Source Pre-Order has some assumptions.

They assume Getsuei will be the same price as Shouki (I'm hoping as others have speculated, he is a little bit less considering arms and legs are easier to design than the torso). Unless TT basically took the price of the project as a whole and just divided them equally...

Also they are showing a release date of June 22 (same as Shouki), I highly doubt this, but it would be interesting if it happened.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

That would be very interesting. Then again, once Takara has the basic mold up and running. It wouldn't take long to make the whole team. So a similar release date isn't completely out of the question.

[Sabrblade]

It would have been easier to have kept Sparks as a Beast Wars/descendants thing. Nothing from G1 prior tied into it. It just complicated things unnecessarily.

That can definitely still be the case for the English versions since the greater Beast Wars expanded universe in the Western World definitely used a mixture of G1 cartoon and comics for its history (which I'm currently in the process of mapping out, wink wink).

But since Japan always treated the cartoons as the same world, this discovery of Wheeljack's serves to explain how, in the Japanese version, sparks did always exist, just unknowingly by the Autobots and Decepticons until Primacron's trial in 2011. Wheeljack was inspired by Primacron's vague words about his having created robotic life with real souls, and so spent the next 14 years investigating this matter, not unveiling his own spark until 2025 (and doing so with a Beast Machines spark extractor in that art, too).

[chuckdawg1999]

So does the second train bot connect to the first one or do we have to wait for a third to come along?

[o.supreme]

So does the second train bot connect to the first one or do we have to wait for a third to come along?

Shouki is the upper torso. Getsuei is one of the legs. Speculation is the lower Torso will be the last one released, making the full combination impossible until the very end.