Stormrider wrote:DevastaTTor wrote:So I understand all the disappointment about the size versus cost and all but can we really factor Prime in as part of the equation? He may still see production runs but his cost structure was originally set up years ago.
Sure, the Seekers are a closer comparison size wise, but I get this feeling that in order to keep costs down on them recently, they've picked a lower cost vendor that wound up costing them: Thundercracker=bad paint, reversed chest thrusters, etc. Additionally, they had a lot greater buying power initially on the Seekers knowing they could repaint the hell out of them.
And back to that Seeker to Grimlock comparison, Grimlock has got to contain more plastic than SS, TC, SW, I guess 20-30 percent more looking at arm size, leg size, etc. Between the materials cost difference there, the added gimmicks, and the extra accessories, that attributes for at least some of the higher cost. I'd probably guess that the rest all boils down to demand is probably lower so the cost per figure has actually gone up, much like we see with Deluxes, Leaders, etc. here in the US. I suspect because Takara can't order as many from its supplier, each Grimlock is winding up costing them more to produce.
In the end, if people want to send a message to Takara, don't buy him.
You're talking crazy talk.
Simple economics - if the demand goes up, the price goes up. If the demand goes down, the price goes down. Don't be fooled with the idea of rising costs. This is profit driven. Where's CP with his economic charts?..
For years, Takara has been making their shipments in runs. The first run is typically small, to test the market and to keep the costs down. Everytime an important new figure comes out the stores only get a few at first. If it sells well, then they continue with more runs. All of the Masterpieces and now Alternity have been sold like this. Sometimes, they will even reissue the figure a year or two later, again, because the demand is there. Examples - MP 01, MP Ultra Magnus, MP Skywarp, and even many G1 figures.
MP Ultra Magnus was just reissued last fall along with MP Skywarp; each for $100. Now, MP Grimlock comes out and it's 40% higher and yet smaller. Another example - (4) Binaltechs came out last fall. Each sold for $50. The Alternity that is 1/2 the size is now retailing for $40.
This is not a rise in material costs, this is not a rise in labor costs. Material costs and labor costs have gone down because the world market is slowing down. Labor fees don't go up when people are looking for jobs. Material fees don't go up when factories are no longer demanding them. This is Takara looking smartly at the situation and realizing that they can charge more money.
If you're still not convinced - pretend that you are a sales/marketing person for Takara or Hasbro. You would notice the following:
1. Botcon exclusives sell out faster each year (despite the increased amounts made).
2. Exclusives are being bought at higher prices, and then sold in secondary markets like eBay for even higher prices.
3. MP 04 was selling for $500 2 years ago.
4. MP 02 sold for $300 when supplies began drying up (and he was a shelf warmer for several years, with a price tag of $50).
5. MP Megatron sold for $200+ as initial runs dried up.
6. Encores are selling hot despite price increases.
7. Henkei is also strong despite price increases.
Takara is making a bold attempt to get your money.
You and my wife must be conspiring against me. She regularly accuses me of speaking crazy talk.
First off, I'm not going to discount that Takara is probably playing with price structures in the same way that Hasbro is here in the US. But I think a lot of the points I've seen in this thread that are echoed in your response to me are all based around demand for a product after it's been produced and is on the market. I don't argue with any of your points about supply and demand there.
I'm basing my arguments around the manufacturing side of things-I'm currently in corporate training for manufacturing and sourcing so I can't help but think in these terms now.
While things certainly are down now causing massive deflation, we have to look back at the timeline for Grimlock. We first learned about him sometime early last year but didn't start getting concrete details about him until late Spring/early Summer. By late Summer/early fall, we were starting to see photos of first strikes of him emerge-the first grey plastic models. During this time, you've got Takara's Sourcing and Manufacturing team ramping up to produce him. (I'm guessing here on some of these details but they're probably fairly accurate). That means the Sourcing team over at Takara is signing the contracts for materials, securing the vendor/factory they'll have produce him, and getting all the logistics for shipping and distribution ironed out. But guess what, at this time, oil has reached an all time high, causing the price of everything you can think of to go up, especially a lot of the things that affect the manufacturing and distribution of a figure like this (Yeah, plastics aren't made out of the same stuff that goes into your car but it's a petroleum based material all the same). But in order to meet their production schedules, Takara has to go ahead and sign their contracts, in most cases, locking them into high pricing.
Also at this time, if they had their finger on the pulse of their business at all, the upper brass and financial team over at Takara is probably noticing the start of the economic slow down. Their overall sales number have started slipping a little causing them to wonder, "are we going to sell 100,000+ units of Grimlock when he's released in the Spring of next year, or 50,000 or less?" Logic dictates that if you have any doubts at all, you set the margin higher in order to cover future sales problems that may develop. If you can sell less for a higher cost on an item like this that already has a built in audience, you know you can at least cover your development and manufacturing costs.
So because of what they were experiencing at that time, Takara set a price point much higher than we've seen before in the hopes that they can offset the cost for developing, manufacturing, and distributing him.
You could also apply the logic above to the Alternity line. Trying to produce a Binaltech figure at or below the cost of what they were several years ago, Takara downsized them. And why would you put off manufacturing Alternity Megatron unless you wanted to see what demand for the first product from that line was and whether you could re-negotiate your manufacturing and distribution contracts for him.
The same logic can be applied to new Deluxe figures in Japan and in the US.
This is all just speculation on my part. But like i've said, I'm working in this world for a little while now and have recently seen the effects of massive fuel increases last year and the huge downturn at the very end of 2008 and the beginning of this year. In the end, I suspect that if Takara were manufacturing him this coming Summer, the price point
may have been different.
And one point I can't help but make: in some cases, even when demand drops off, prices on an item can still go up. In the US, gas prices are creeping up more and more despite a big decline in demand. And that all can be traced back to production and manufacturing.
In the end, I just can't predict what's going to happen from here. Obviously the cost to develop and manufacture a figure like this has gone down. But unfortunately, so has the audience who can currently afford a figure like a MP. It'll be interesting to see how that affects the decision to produce more MP figures going forward, at least in the foreseeable future.
But who know, maybe Takara is indeed trying to milk us all out of more $. I doubt though that they're really want to alienate their core audience at home and abroad though.
PS-sorry for the crazy long response above. I have writer's cramp now.
B: If I am mistaken about the 'bot eyes (and I sincerely hope I am) I thought I'd read somewhere that his dino eyes would light up too? Anyone else recall that?
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