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william-james88 wrote:Really? If you find this Iron Spider toy on your next trip, please send me a PM (letting me know the price). He came out a few months ago and I have been having the hardest time tracking him down.

Sure thing. I'll add it to the list, right behind TR Deluxe Wave 5, and TLK Deluxe Cogman, when I see those at a store near me, I'll let you know as well.

Also, I know this is OT, but [Seinfeld]What's the deal with calling Original Starscream/Seekers parts-formers?[/Seinfeld]

I mean admittedly, its been some time since I had one in hand, but IIRC the only thing "parts" about it was the hands/fists, Sure I know the wings could come off, but you could rotate them (as shown in the TV adds) as opposed to taking them off. I mean if you are going to call Seekers parts-formers, then you might as well call Optimus Prime that, and half the 84/85 Autobot cars since they had removable fists as well. Also it's not like it's a bad thing, I mean the greatest Autobot of all was a parts-former, and I wouldn't mind if he was again (although FT TG has way more transformation, and is way more awesome than I ever thought possible).

Good article. I'm not a collector of any other toy line, so I was oblivious to the discrepancy between Transformers and other toy lines. However, I have noticed that in general, there are a lot more simplistic toys on shelves, in every store for every brand. And, in my opinion, this is the result of/contributing factor to 1 thing no one has mentioned: generally, the intelligence level of children is lower now than it was 30 years ago. And those who are highly intelligent (for children) don't spend too much time with toys. They have interactive video games and other things.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Good article. I'm not a collector of any other toy line, so I was oblivious to the discrepancy between Transformers and other toy lines. However, I have noticed that in general, there are a lot more simplistic toys on shelves, in every store for every brand. And, in my opinion, this is the result of/contributing factor to 1 thing no one has mentioned: generally, the intelligence level of children is lower now than it was 30 years ago. And those who are highly intelligent (for children) don't spend too much time with toys. They have interactive video games and other things.

I actually disagree that kids are less intelligent, in fact I would tend to argue the opposite. The amount of information available to kids today is incredible compared to 30 years ago.

What I do agree with is that smart phones and video games have changed the toy landscape. Kids simply stop playing with toys at a younger age now and prefer the electronic devices for their spare time. I believe this has much more to do with the available technology today than any difference in intelligence of the kids.

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Good article. I'm not a collector of any other toy line, so I was oblivious to the discrepancy between Transformers and other toy lines. However, I have noticed that in general, there are a lot more simplistic toys on shelves, in every store for every brand. And, in my opinion, this is the result of/contributing factor to 1 thing no one has mentioned: generally, the intelligence level of children is lower now than it was 30 years ago. And those who are highly intelligent (for children) don't spend too much time with toys. They have interactive video games and other things.

I actually disagree that kids are less intelligent, in fact I would tend to argue the opposite. The amount of information available to kids today is incredible compared to 30 years ago.

What I do agree with is that smart phones and video games have changed the toy landscape. Kids simply stop playing with toys at a younger age now and prefer the electronic devices for their spare time. I believe this has much more to do with the available technology today than any difference in intelligence of the kids.

I agree with this, my 3 yr old knows how to fully work a tablet and any electronic device that operates on the same principles, my 5 yr old can fully navigate my TV and set my playstation 4 up on his own...just so he could play lego marvel super heroes..

As much as we try to compare our childhood to today, we just can't, the world is so different and I don't think the genie is going back in the bottle.

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Good article. I'm not a collector of any other toy line, so I was oblivious to the discrepancy between Transformers and other toy lines. However, I have noticed that in general, there are a lot more simplistic toys on shelves, in every store for every brand. And, in my opinion, this is the result of/contributing factor to 1 thing no one has mentioned: generally, the intelligence level of children is lower now than it was 30 years ago. And those who are highly intelligent (for children) don't spend too much time with toys. They have interactive video games and other things.

I actually disagree that kids are less intelligent, in fact I would tend to argue the opposite. The amount of information available to kids today is incredible compared to 30 years ago.

Just because the information is available it doesn't automatically make children smarter. It's knowing what to do with the information. And that leads to another fundamental problem with society today, which is faulty parenting. But that's going way off topic. The point I was trying to make is that toy companies produce the style of toys they think will most appeal to their targeted demographic, which they base on sales numbers.

So it's logical to assume that the type of toys they produce the most of is the type that has been selling the most in the previous sales period. And that means is that the reason most toy companies sell simpler figures is because that's what sells best. I can think of only Transformers and Star Wars toys that have a serious built-in adult following. I know some other toys have them, but not to the extent of these 2. Of course, that's just my observation, I could be wrong.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Good article. I'm not a collector of any other toy line, so I was oblivious to the discrepancy between Transformers and other toy lines. However, I have noticed that in general, there are a lot more simplistic toys on shelves, in every store for every brand. And, in my opinion, this is the result of/contributing factor to 1 thing no one has mentioned: generally, the intelligence level of children is lower now than it was 30 years ago. And those who are highly intelligent (for children) don't spend too much time with toys. They have interactive video games and other things.

The intelligence level of children is higher than it was 30 years ago. Thats a proven fact since IQ tests need to keep changing to be more challenging and adapt to a smarter average (and keep it at 100). You can read more about that here: http://www.cracked.com/article_18983_5- ... -b.s..html

The big difference is that 30 years ago, there was no distinction between age groups and most toys were generally simple (there are of course exceptions like Jetfire). Plus, Hasbro wants to keep affordable options to parents, so to do that they need to cut costs on parts and that means less complexity.

We see that a lot with the Marvel and Stars Wars lines. But they arent less complex than they were then.

Mainline Star Wars and Marvel in the 80s






Mainline Star Wars and Marvel today





So kids basically get the same thing they got in the 80s for a relatively similar price point (taking account inflation).
But thats not so bad, it means now there are options for every age group for the brand and kids can join in on the fun early. My 2 year old girl loves the fact that she can transform one step RID sideswipe like a big girl!

And O Supreme, I think its shots like this which give Starscream that connotation:



Along with the instructions telling you to remove and reattach the wings, which does make things easier



Plus even if we ignore the wings, the landing gear is an additional partsforming step.

I like the article, very interesting thought.

I think the one thing that isn't considered however, is the expectations of the transformers toy line is different to every other toy line. Note, I'm not disagreeing with the article, just that there is even more to consider when saying that transformers fans have it pretty good.

With transformers you expect a vehicle/animal and a robot. two modes. Star Wars, and Comic toy lines are characters that don't change shape, they are figurines first and foremost. even the most articulated mainline action figure has a miniscule parts count next to all but the simplest of transformers. It's very easy to make a screen accurate human toy but to make a screen accurate transformer requires high levels of engineering design and smart implementation of parts count and visual styling.

this is why when you have a lower price point transformer, screen likeness of one mode tends to be sacrificed for the other, suddenly making the toy less 'mature' finished in comparison to a similarly priced action figure from another line.

For their time, G1 toys were immensely complex, even by todays standards their part count was very high. think about an autobot car. Prowl for instance. the implementation of ball joints hadn't developed at that time, so the legs were spread apart using bars to guide and limit movement, to ensure that the reverse transformation was easy (didn't require too much fiddling. The arms appear solid, there are two parts in the upper arm, two parts in the fore arm, even the fists might be two parts that are glued together, the shoulder contains a pin/rivet, the wheel, tyre and the grey part that assembles to the body is probably made up of more than one piece as well, and that's only counting the pieces that can be seen without disassembling the toy. I count 9 pieces per arm at least.
A modern toy, Titans return hardhead for example has a shoulder piece, upper arm, fore arm and fist, they are all designed to be single piece moulded parts reducing assembly and manufacturing cost. 4 pieces in total.

Even though the G1 toy may not appear to be as complex to the end user, there is a lot more design and manufacturing complexity applied to make it fit together as it doesn't tab together in the same manner as modern toys do. The same can be said about a lot of the 'simpler' modern toys.

Take one step RID sideswipe, it's an extremely complex toy. the car opens and spills itself into a robot with one step. it has many parts, several springs and all this is designed so that you can flip the feet and make it transform without much hassle. that's so much more complex than an equivalently priced star wars/DC or otherwise toy. the springs have to have the right stiffness, the parts have to be geared/sequenced so they pass each other from one mode to the other at the right time so it doesn't all jam up. Sure it could use a few more paint apps, I'm not about to argue that. but I think pretty much every toy on shelves should have more paint apps.

It's a lot easier and cheaper to make a figurine that has a good screen representation when it doesn't have to turn into something else, and by that standard, it's a lot easier and cheaper to make a satisfying toy at a lower price in most lines other than transformers.

so in summary, I feel it's the expectation of transformers being so much more than just an action figure that promotes a lot of the 'adult' fandoms disappointment with modern toys. I agree the line has a lot of focus for kids, as it should but as fans of the puzzle toy that is transformers it wouldn't hurt to step back and appreciate the hidden complexity of those kiddy toys. as well as the wonderful collector focussed lines.

Actually, Will, Amazon US doesn't always ship to other countries, I know for a fact they don't send the exclusives to Mexico either.
I didn't mention exclusives in my original comment because they are special toys, so it does make a bit more sense for them to be hard to get, that said, I do feel that exclusives are other part of the TF Fandom that is almost…exclusive to the US, as most other countries don't have whatever chains carry them, making internet sellers sell them for an arm and a leg, and that's before even getting into shipping, which is also pretty high AND may not even apply to your country anyway.

MaverickPrime wrote:Actually, Will, Amazon US doesn't always ship to other countries, I know for a fact they don't send the exclusives to Mexico either.
I didn't mention exclusives in my original comment because they are special toys, so it does make a bit more sense for them to be hard to get, that said, I do feel that exclusives are other part of the TF Fandom that is almost…exclusive to the US, as most other countries don't have whatever chains carry them, making internet sellers sell them for an arm and a leg, and that's before even getting into shipping, which is also pretty high AND may not even apply to your country anyway.

Yes, being in Canada where many of these exclusives dont see the light of day, I can completely understand. But ceterus parabus. The comparison is between the different brands and we can say the same about exclusives for marve.

Will you ever be seeing this exclusive in mexican stores?



Probably not. And you will be stuck paying an arm and a leg for it online if you want it.

Same goes for Star Wars https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Toysrus-Exclusi ... m570.l1313

So exclusives are all the same across the board and its not like fans of those franchises have it better. The same can be said about people bringing distribution into the argument. Any woes people may have about Transformers not being stocked are the same with Star Wars and Marvel (DC simply has very little product intended for mass retail, concentrating on the direct market instead). And plus, none of those lines get stocked as much as Transformers movie lines when it comes to older kids toys (ie Black series, marvel legends), and Infinity War is bigger than any TF movie ever.

So if you still see TLK shelfwarmers, then you know for a fact that your store stocks more TFs than other franchises.

Anyways, this was my walmart today. It looks barren at first, but then you see Inferno, SS Megatron and Brawl, Tiny Turbo Titans series 3, and of course the wave 3 deluxes (for both POTP and TLK). And the only kiddie figure there is RID Menasor.

Small nitpick will, you mean bludgeon don't you

ZeroWolf wrote:Small nitpick will, you mean bludgeon don't you

sorry, i meant Menasor. He is at the bottom. RID Bludgeon is as complex as any other standard generations toy.

william-james88 wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Small nitpick will, you mean bludgeon don't you

sorry, i meant Menasor. He is at the bottom. RID Bludgeon is as complex as any other standard generations toy.

*squints*

Ah yeah I see him at the bottom, which makes sense now as you typed Galvatron meaning galvatronus from the same subline.

Though you say bludgeon is as complex but it still feels though that many look down on the warrior line as inferior, which I have learned is anything but.

And the noisiest are the oldest of the fandom

Really now! Even Takara is hemorrhaging badly because of the low Japanese birthrate, their primary markets, toddler to pre pubescent are just not enough to support the "Pyramid".

Us manbabies, though willing to pay disposable cash are just not enough. So it ain't surprising Hb is churning out "kiddy" junk(?).

ZeroWolf wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Small nitpick will, you mean bludgeon don't you

sorry, i meant Menasor. He is at the bottom. RID Bludgeon is as complex as any other standard generations toy.

*squints*

Ah yeah I see him at the bottom, which makes sense now as you typed Galvatron meaning galvatronus from the same subline.

Though you say bludgeon is as complex but it still feels though that many look down on the warrior line as inferior, which I have learned is anything but.

Yeah, thats where i made my mistake. As for the RID warriors, they were the breath of fresh air the fandom had asked for but ultimately chose to ignore. But that's ok, the secondary market prices of some of these toys speak for themselves. I am just glad its not too late for you and others to enjoy and discover these.

I'm enjoying the ones I've got so far and I'm looking to get starscream when able.

While distribution woes is a real thing, I think stocking is pretty important too. And in comparing to other toylines, I think Transformers is pretty good. Most of us found our POTP wave 2 deluxes right one way or another right? And if I asked for a Blackwing would one of you have seen him recently? I already have him, but its to illustrate a real example when compring to Marvel Legends because HOLY **** is that a hard line to collect.

Has anyone seen this guy recently?



He has been sold out at canadian retail the week he was on shelves, and there was never a restock. I have asked several US friends (from all across the US) to keep a look out for months and he has not shown up. The stock of these marvel legends toys seems ridiculously low. He came out at around the same time as POTP wave 2, hence my earlier comparison and just vanished. Its ridiculous, have any of you seen this guy at retail recently? I currently have him in order at Amazon.ca until he comes back in stock (which might be never) so hopefully that works out.

What sucks major balls is that (another reason why being a Transfomers fan is better), not getting this spider-man makes me miss 2 key figures. Not only do I not have spider-man, but my Thanos ends up missing his leg. Because of all the characters to make a build a figure of, they chose the main antagonist of the film.

Thats like if Studio Series ROTF megatron was split into 5 parts and to get him you have to buy 5 other toys including KSI Sentry, Shadow Raider and a bunch of other toys you may not care to get.

Me venturing out of ransformers collecting will turn out to be a very short moment. Just enough to be able to write these articles letting you guys know how much luckier we are.