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njb902 wrote:Look at what happened with Optimus Primal in season 2 of Beast Wars, his body was destroyed and yet his consciousness was implanted in a new body.

Yeah, he died, and was resurrected. Rhinox pulled his spark out of the Allspark. The death there was temporary.

njb902 wrote:Optimus Prime "died" in Transformers the movie, but he was up and kicking by the end of season 3.

After the Quints reversed his death.

njb902 wrote:Megatron "died" at the end of Transformers Prime season 3, but he's "alive" at the end of the movie. Ect. Ect.

After Unicron pulled his conscious out of limbo.

njb902 wrote:In the end none of us know. We all have our opinions, but that's all they are.

You do know that Transformer deaths are reversible, right?

Sabrblade wrote:

njb902 wrote:Look at what happened with Optimus Primal in season 2 of Beast Wars, his body was destroyed and yet his consciousness was implanted in a new body.

Yeah, he died, and was resurrected. Rhinox pulled his spark out of the Allspark. The death there was temporary.

njb902 wrote:Optimus Prime "died" in Transformers the movie, but he was up and kicking by the end of season 3.

After the Quints reversed his death.

njb902 wrote:Megatron "died" at the end of Transformers Prime season 3, but he's "alive" at the end of the movie. Ect. Ect.

After Unicron pulled his conscious out of limbo.

njb902 wrote:In the end none of us know. We all have our opinions, but that's all they are.

You do know that Transformer deaths are reversible, right?

You're right. I should know better than to have an opinion by now.

Sabrblade wrote:Because it has happened countless times in the past 30 years of TF fiction?

And there have been many countless examples of those Transformers being re-downloaded into a new body. So unless you're arguing a case for zombie Transformers, you must accept that they, like Optimus Prime now, were simply put into storage.

njb902 wrote:You're right. I should know better than to have an opinion by now.

This isn't about opinions. I have no opinion on the matter because what the writers do with the characters is out of my, yours, or anyone's hands.

*sigh*

Here, just... take a look at these:
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Death
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/The_many_deaths_of_Optimus_Prime

Blast Cannon wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Because it has happened countless times in the past 30 years of TF fiction?

And there have been many countless examples of those Transformers being re-downloaded into a new body. So unless you're arguing a case for zombie Transformers, you must accept that they, like Optimus Prime now, were simply put into storage.

As I said to njb902, you do realize that TF deaths are reversible, right?

Sabrblade wrote:

njb902 wrote:You're right. I should know better than to have an opinion by now.

This isn't about opinions. I have no opinion on the matter because what the writers do with the characters is out of my, yours, or anyone's hands.

*sigh*

Here, just... take a look at these:
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Death
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/The_many_deaths_of_Optimus_Prime

Wikis are written by fans and therefore not the fountain of all knowledge. Interestingly enough, from the brief skim-read I just performed, both articles do a good job of discussing the many deaths of Prime but not what happens to him once he 'passes'. If anything, they remark on the ease of his eventual return, further supporting my theory that Prime is simply stored awaiting to be re-downloaded.

Thanks for the help!

Sabrblade wrote:

Blast Cannon wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Because it has happened countless times in the past 30 years of TF fiction?

And there have been many countless examples of those Transformers being re-downloaded into a new body. So unless you're arguing a case for zombie Transformers, you must accept that they, like Optimus Prime now, were simply put into storage.

As I said to njb902, you do realize that TF deaths are reversible, right?

You do realise that when you die and you come back to life you're a zombie, right?

Blast Cannon wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Blast Cannon wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Because it has happened countless times in the past 30 years of TF fiction?

And there have been many countless examples of those Transformers being re-downloaded into a new body. So unless you're arguing a case for zombie Transformers, you must accept that they, like Optimus Prime now, were simply put into storage.

As I said to njb902, you do realize that TF deaths are reversible, right?

You do realise that when you die and you come back to life you're a zombie, right?

Only if you come back in an undead form. If you come back with your life fully restored as it once was prior to your death, you're alive again.

Also, go watch Beast Machines.

Sabrblade wrote:

njb902 wrote:You're right. I should know better than to have an opinion by now.

This isn't about opinions. I have no opinion on the matter because what the writers do with the characters is out of my, yours, or anyone's hands.

*sigh*

Here, just... take a look at these:
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Death
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/The_many_deaths_of_Optimus_Prime

I said you're right, what more do you want. I was wrong, please except my heartfelt apology for my intellectual failings. It was wrong of me to have had a opinion based on anything beyond the absolute facts of the situation. It was wrong for me to have had my own viewpoint about the meaning of death in the transformers multiverse that may be contrary to the writers vision. Finally it was wrong of me to have questioned how and why transformers return from the dead without understanding why.

I don't know what else I can give Sabrblade.

Sabrblade wrote:

Blast Cannon wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Blast Cannon wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Because it has happened countless times in the past 30 years of TF fiction?

And there have been many countless examples of those Transformers being re-downloaded into a new body. So unless you're arguing a case for zombie Transformers, you must accept that they, like Optimus Prime now, were simply put into storage.

As I said to njb902, you do realize that TF deaths are reversible, right?

You do realise that when you die and you come back to life you're a zombie, right?

Only if you come back in an undead form. If you come back with your life fully restored as it once was prior to your death, you're alive again.

Also, go watch Beast Machines.

You can't account for their behaviour out of the time frames of each episode. I have it on good authority that there is a reason for Optimus Prime's faceplate once Orion Pax is 'brought back' from the dead by Alpha Trion. It's a sort of Hannibal Lecter muzzle to prevent him dining on his fellow Transformers.

Tragic really.

njb902 wrote:I said you're right, what more do you want.

I don't want that.

njb902 wrote:I was wrong, please except my heartfelt apology for my intellectual failings. It was wrong of me to have had a opinion based on anything beyond the absolute facts of the situation. It was wrong for me to have had my own viewpoint about the meaning of death in the transformers multiverse that may be contrary to the writers vision. Finally it was wrong of me to have questioned how and why transformers return from the dead without understanding why.

Don't do that. Don't belittle yourself for my or anyone else's sake. You're a reasonable and intelligent guy, based on other posts you made in the past.

njb902 wrote:I don't know what else I can give Sabrblade.

You don't have to "give" anything, especially not a surrender.

Giving up in such a way is the last thing I'd wish upon anyone. I know I can seem intimidating at times and I hate how that comes across. A common ground is all I aim for, but one that's reached in a fair manner rather than just handed by one party to the other. For that isn't equality.

Sabrblade wrote:

njb902 wrote:I said you're right, what more do you want.

I don't want that.

njb902 wrote:I was wrong, please except my heartfelt apology for my intellectual failings. It was wrong of me to have had a opinion based on anything beyond the absolute facts of the situation. It was wrong for me to have had my own viewpoint about the meaning of death in the transformers multiverse that may be contrary to the writers vision. Finally it was wrong of me to have questioned how and why transformers return from the dead without understanding why.

Don't do that. Don't belittle yourself for my or anyone else's sake. You're a reasonable and intelligent guy, based on other posts you made in the past.

njb902 wrote:I don't know what else I can give Sabrblade.

You don't have to "give" anything, especially not a surrender.

Giving up in such a way is the last thing I'd wish upon anyone. I know I can seem intimidating at times and I hate how that comes across. A common ground is all I aim for, but one that's reached in a fair manner rather than just handed by one party to the other. For that isn't equality.

either prime flys away or he sacrifices himself to or with what ever artifact is the key plot point of the movie. All im saying is if he dies again he better stay dead or not come back til way way in the future. Im getting sick of prime dying then being brought back 5 minutes later cause some snot nose little kid cried at primes death in 86. No one complained when when everyone else died just optimus.

price on his head? that must mean lockdown:D!!! cause if you think about it lockdown is a space bounty hunter and thats how i think they find the dinobots this movie....just sherlock holmes moment:)

Sabrblade wrote:

njb902 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Guys, within the context of just Transformers: Prime, it was permanent. Any resurrection he may inevitably get in a follow up series would be outside of the Transformers: Prime series. You guys are all thinking within the context of the greater continuity, while I'm only speaking from the context of just the individual series that it occurred in itself.

It's no different from saying that Optimus Primal permanently died at the end of Beast Machines, even though two different follow up stories brought him back from the dead. Those stories are outside of the Beast Machines cartoon, so they aren't part of that series even though they are part of its greater continuity.

I just don't think he died.

He became "one with the AllSpark", which Smokescreen remarked meant "That's what you say when someone kicks the..." ("bucket" is likely what he gonna finish with), and a distressed Ratchet spoke of Optimus about to lose his life. For a Cybertronain to "join the Allspark" is to leave the land of the living and enter the afterlife, essentially the Transformer equivalent of going into Heaven.

Wait: Isn't strongly suggested that there is reincarnation between Cybertronians in this Universe?

1) Breakdown said to Bulkhead in "Operation: Breakdown" Maybe in next life
2) Optimus also said that "This is yet another transformation", and later that all life comes and goes back to the Allspark
3) There is a great resemblance between Breakdown and Darksteel, arguably even between Dreadwing and Skylynx.
4)This flying Red Spark...

The point is: I belive that Optimus in Aligned Contiuity technically isn't "dead" yet he reborn as some compleltly different Cybertronian with no memeory, different body and personality. I think it is nice way to keep him "alive", and making he's return impossible at the same time.

Actually, Transformers 5 without Optimus could be the best movie of the series, especially if they decide that Megatron stay dead. I'm kinda tired of Optimus and Megatron beign like Kenny Mccormick in this universe. 4 movies with main Transformers cast remains pretty much the same is enough for me.

I cant make any feeling about what I heard...

prime has a price on his head
he endange everyone by staying here
asks the autobots to protect this familly (above all the rest? it means they are important in some way...)

an artifact?

okay so prime leaves earth and don't come back... does he leave the spot to ultra magnus (the black flat nose could be him after all, cause sideswipe was red and ended up gray, skids was daark blue ended up being green so magnus could end up black)?
or are we going to see Rodimus?

no major spoiler here...

TurboMMaster wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

njb902 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Guys, within the context of just Transformers: Prime, it was permanent. Any resurrection he may inevitably get in a follow up series would be outside of the Transformers: Prime series. You guys are all thinking within the context of the greater continuity, while I'm only speaking from the context of just the individual series that it occurred in itself.

It's no different from saying that Optimus Primal permanently died at the end of Beast Machines, even though two different follow up stories brought him back from the dead. Those stories are outside of the Beast Machines cartoon, so they aren't part of that series even though they are part of its greater continuity.

I just don't think he died.

He became "one with the AllSpark", which Smokescreen remarked meant "That's what you say when someone kicks the..." ("bucket" is likely what he gonna finish with), and a distressed Ratchet spoke of Optimus about to lose his life. For a Cybertronain to "join the Allspark" is to leave the land of the living and enter the afterlife, essentially the Transformer equivalent of going into Heaven.

Wait: Isn't strongly suggested that there is reincarnation between Cybertronians in this Universe?

1) Breakdown said to Bulkhead in "Operation: Breakdown" Maybe in next life
2) Optimus also said that "This is yet another transformation", and later that all life comes and goes back to the Allspark
3) There is a great resemblance between Breakdown and Darksteel, arguably even between Dreadwing and Skylynx.
4)This flying Red Spark...

The point is: I belive that Optimus in Aligned Contiuity technically isn't "dead" yet he reborn as some compleltly different Cybertronian with no memeory, different body and personality. I think it is nice way to keep him "alive", and making he's return impossible at the same time.

Actually, Transformers 5 without Optimus could be the best movie of the series, especially if they decide that Megatron stay dead. I'm kinda tired of Optimus and Megatron beign like Kenny Mccormick in this universe. 4 movies with main Transformers cast remains pretty much the same is enough for me.

"Next life" = afterlife, reincarnation or not.
Another transformation probably means from his physical form to his spiritual form.
Just because there's a resemblance between Breakdown and Darksteel doesn't mean they're the same people.
The flying red spark is probably Optimus Prime's soul.

I think maybe OP leaves the planet cause of maybe the new Human Villan Played by Kelsey Grammar maybe he & his group of humans have something on OP they can use against Op. Thus OP has no choice but to leave Earth otherwise he would endanger his Family his Autobots & his Human Allies.

To me I think this is the most logical Reason, What Kelsey's character could have on OP could be anything I think this would be a more excellent plot choice on TF 4.

On Megatron I think in the Beginning of TF 4 he will still be Megatron & I think that Kelseys group is pulling a MECH Move or Sector 7 move reverse Egineering to make Super Weapons. During this process Megatron gets Re-Activated then later on during 4 Megatron seeking more power maybe trough a Mysterious Artifact becomes Galvatron.

I also think that the Dinobot will not actually be really friendly during the 1st time it will take time & patience to get The Dinobots on the Autobots side.

While I would also like Rodimus or Ultra Magnus to take over, I would like closure to Prime in the movie-verse, if they do this deal with him Leaving then they would need to have him Replaced.
I loved Prime cause it had an awesome closure with OP hopefully in 4 we will have another nice send off for OP.

I just hope this movie will not be too off the wall, fits in & be a nice transistion from Shia to Mark being a Brand new cast, & new Autobots & Decepticons need to be a Transistion that makes since.

Also I think they should explain the events of the 4 Years since DOTM Ended.

I also made new characters I think would be awesome in TF 5,

Thunderstriker
DarkShot
GeoShocker
BeachRumbler
PyroBlaster
Scorch

If Optimus really leaving , I hope he is gonna to die. He deserves to be killed off for real since the first Movie. After all, how many time he can be spared, revived or saved?

But if Optimus is only going to leave Earth, I quess it will be undone really fast. After all, It is hard to someone else could take all the credit for Human's Main character action...

Me, this film is such as Big Mystery. & i Give kudos to Mr. Bay for keeping things Under Lock & key compared to previous movies. They were all spoiled months in advanced before they were released.

While on TF 4 we dont hardly know anything, even the Transformers have mysterious on them such as Cyclonus we know nothing on him such as what is his ALT.Mode be like, we havent seen a Pre Alpha Stage of him showing his Robotic Root Mode. I just hope he will not be a Starscream clone.

Many of these vehicles have been announced but many we dont know if they are Autobots or Decepticons also we keep on hearing on Lockdown but we know nothing or rather or not if he is even in the Movie & many keep on talking about Ultra Magnus or Rodimus replacing OP but they also havent even been mentioned in TF 4.

We dont even know what the Plot device of TF 4 will be such as The AllSpark was in previous or the Cube Sliver in ROTF or the Pillars in DOTM I assume 4 will have something also. We keep on hearing about the Humans having a Weapon but we dont know what that is. Me I can think of Requiem Blaster, Moon Shield, Star Saber or maybe something Brand new.

This movie is killing me cause I dont know anything on it, I know more of X-Men Days of Future Past or my Dragon Age Inquistion than I do on TF 4. Heck I know more on Persona 5 than I do on TF 4.

Next to nothing is known on the film, we dont even know when the Trailer will be out, I assume this will be in Jan sometime. Probably around the Super Bowl.

Me, this film is such as Big Mystery. & i Give kudos to Mr. Bay for keeping things Under Lock & key compared to previous movies. They were all spoiled months in advanced before they were released.

While on TF 4 we dont hardly know anything, even the Transformers have mysterious on them such as Cyclonus we know nothing on him such as what is his ALT.Mode be like, we havent seen a Pre Alpha Stage of him showing his Robotic Root Mode. I just hope he will not be a Starscream clone.

Many of these vehicles have been announced but many we dont know if they are Autobots or Decepticons also we keep on hearing on Lockdown but we know nothing or rather or not if he is even in the Movie & many keep on talking about Ultra Magnus or Rodimus replacing OP but they also havent even been mentioned in TF 4.

We dont even know what the Plot device of TF 4 will be such as The AllSpark was in previous or the Cube Sliver in ROTF or the Pillars in DOTM I assume 4 will have something also. We keep on hearing about the Humans having a Weapon but we dont know what that is. Me I can think of Requiem Blaster, Moon Shield, Star Saber or maybe something Brand new.

This movie is killing me cause I dont know anything on it, I know more of X-Men Days of Future Past or my Dragon Age Inquistion than I do on TF 4. Heck I know more on Persona 5 than I do on TF 4.

Next to nothing is known on the film, we dont even know when the Trailer will be out, I assume this will be in Jan sometime. Probably around the Super Bowl.