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by **Broody Cuss** » Tue May 27, 2008 8:33 pm

A couple of months ago I gave into curiosity and bought a KO Sludge off eBay. I had to see if it was really as good as it looked. Not surprisingly, it wasn't.

The toy's detail and box were nice, but the overall quality was still KO. The chrome was fairly well done, although a section of one wing/rib was not completely vacuum metalized. The joints were tight, but the dino mouth was not aligned and the head was slightly crooked. The paint job was poor (both die-cast and robot face), and the accessories were vintage KO -- particularly the rocket launcher.

Oddly enough, they added springs to the rear dino legs where originally there were none? This made the legs snap firmly into place when in robot mode, but had the negative effect of forcing the legs outward at an angle when in dino mode.

A real easy way to distinguish a genuine G1 Sludge from a detailed KO, even one that's boxed, is to look for the where the factory applied labels should be on the chrome wing/rib. The KO Sludge does not have these small labels. The KO mold also does not have the indentation for the factory applied label located on the dino rump/robot leg, although this is hard to see on a boxed item. (see comparison below)

G1

KO

G1 Factory label on wing/rib and indent on rump (factory label removed)

And I totally agree 'YC-Collection' is shady seller. The guy never responded to any of my e-mails questioning the authenticity of items he was passing of as genuine. :APPLAUSE:

News Credits: 1082 · by **Tigertrack** » Wed May 28, 2008 12:41 pm

Reflector Images (KNOCK OFF)

News Credits: 4 · by **capellamusic** » Wed May 28, 2008 1:10 pm

tigertracks 24 wrote:Reflector Images (KNOCK OFF)

Sadly, I don't own Reflector, but at first sight it seems so original that I'd like to know what are the main differences between this KO and the original.

News Credits: 1082 · by **Tigertrack** » Wed May 28, 2008 1:25 pm

capellamusic wrote:
tigertracks 24 wrote:Reflector Images (KNOCK OFF)

Sadly, I don't own Reflector, but at first sight it seems so original that I'd like to know what are the main differences between this KO and the original.

Apparently not much. I do not own this, it was sent to me as a pre-order advertisement with a fellow I have done business with before.

The only difference I have seen so far were the box numbers, but I have no idea what they stand for-what production number it is?-- so all of the original box numbers could have been different as well.

by **roboticplanet** » Wed May 28, 2008 1:33 pm

The only thing I've noticed with the bootleg Reflector is that they went with the single-tab missile variation, as opposed to the no-tab missiles, as well as the filled in Opto Blaster gun instead of the gapped version. Too early to tell yet on the figures, but at least the weapons can help narrow down potential bootlegs.

by **Fussion** » Fri May 30, 2008 3:27 pm

Broody Cuss wrote:A couple of months ago I gave into curiosity and bought a KO Sludge off eBay. I had to see if it was really as good as it looked. Not surprisingly, it wasn't.

The toy's detail and box were nice, but the overall quality was still KO. The chrome was fairly well done, although a section of one wing/rib was not completely vacuum metalized. The joints were tight, but the dino mouth was not aligned and the head was slightly crooked. The paint job was poor (both die-cast and robot face), and the accessories were vintage KO -- particularly the rocket launcher.

Oddly enough, they added springs to the rear dino legs where originally there were none? This made the legs snap firmly into place when in robot mode, but had the negative effect of forcing the legs outward at an angle when in dino mode.

A real easy way to distinguish a genuine G1 Sludge from a detailed KO, even one that's boxed, is to look for the where the factory applied labels should be on the chrome wing/rib. The KO Sludge does not have these small labels. The KO mold also does not have the indentation for the factory applied label located on the dino rump/robot leg, although this is hard to see on a boxed item. (see comparison below)

G1

KO

G1 Factory label on wing/rib and indent on rump (factory label removed)

And I totally agree 'YC-Collection' is shady seller. The guy never responded to any of my e-mails questioning the authenticity of items he was passing of as genuine.

This is excellent work Broody Cuss! Keep it up.

News Credits: 767 · by **Dead Metal** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:12 am

sellers also list them as remakes these days.

Just to help out a bit.

Oh Awesome thread thanks!

News Credits: 1082 · by **Tigertrack** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:14 pm

Cyclonus and Scourge KOs coming...

News Credits: 1082 · by **Tigertrack** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:18 pm

Wheeljack is now available in all his accurate KO glory.

News Credits: 1 · by **vectorA3** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:21 pm

pix??

News Credits: 4 · by **capellamusic** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:50 pm

Where can that Wheeljack be found for sale?

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:38 am

KO market is the result of too much demand and too little supply. Blame HasTak for not releasing/re-issuing the G1 figs. As for the complaints that it decreases the value of the originals......tough.

Most if not all collect for the love of collecting, if you manage to earn from your collection then kudos but in reality, the reason the value of vintage goes down is that when the original figure is "officially" re-issued again.

Another thing, the market is so saturated by speculators (just like the stock market) that some figures become scarce and collectors get deprived by these charlatans.

Speaking of which, if some bozo sells the KO/re-issue as the real thing, then that is another Mother F*ckin' matter, that'd fall under certain felony statutes like selling or misrepresenting the product.

I'd like to do my share in identifying/describing what the KO's look like. Mind you I do not condemn the product, the Dinobot Bommander (no, this is not a typo) is near perfect, same with my Devastator. But one thing that got me going was that I knew what I was getting into, them @sshole who sell them otherwise.........well, feed 'em to the Sharkticons (which BTW, a KO version is already available in the market)

News Credits: 1 · by **vectorA3** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:41 am

then why doesn't hasTak re-release all the G1 they have molds for? Whoever hasn't been done yet - i don't see the problem. They know there is strong demand for them, so it's not like they'll lose $. They can't complain that ebay lists KOs and sells them & they lose out on $ if they never re-issue figs themselves!!

News Credits: 1082 · by **Tigertrack** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:21 am

vectorA3 wrote:then why doesn't hasTak re-release all the G1 they have molds for? Whoever hasn't been done yet - i don't see the problem. They know there is strong demand for them, so it's not like they'll lose $. They can't complain that ebay lists KOs and sells them & they lose out on $ if they never re-issue figs themselves!!

They have other focuses, the collector market is not the main one. They tried and pretty much failed with the TRU Commemorative Set. Many had to go on clearance before they sold. So at that time the feedback was, nope, the HASBRO toy market does not desire these enough to warrant them spending time and materials on them. Classisc TRU exclusive Soundwave may have been the exception.

TakaraTomy is selling them in the ENCORE line.
Many of the molds are broken or worn.

That's what they tell us. The prices on these are a bit high for most collectors, as evidenced by the leaving of the TRU exclusives on the shelf.

US has toy safety regulations. When they release these in the US, they have to follow government standards, in many cases, again as shown by the TRU Commemorative set, they have to change previous weapons, missiles, etc., to account. The KO artists do not have to abide by any standards.

KO Wheeljack

I'm expecting Marlboro Wheeljack KO's to be announced any day. They did red Mirage after all.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:18 am

And the Hasbro commemorative versions were hampered by them d@mn safety standards if I do say so myself.

News Credits: 12 · by **robofreak** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:24 pm

fenrir72 wrote:And the Hasbro commemorative versions were hampered by them d@mn safety standards if I do say so myself.

Only issue I had with the commemoratives were the price. I know for a fact that kids wanted them, but they were too expensive for a kid to buy. What got me pissed was that they sold the Hot Rod reissue for $15, but everything else was $30 and up. The figures would have sold if they would have been more fair with the pricing. I don't care if they were commemoratives. They did'nt sell because kids would rather spend $30 on an ultra class figure than a toy who's size fits that of the deluxes.

News Credits: 1 · by **vectorA3** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:23 am

the current saftey regulations - are they that much tougher than the 80's standards?? Is this a big issue? I think part of the pricing problem was caused by TRU - i know for Star wars exclusives they charge a bit too much, thus a lot of that stuff ends up sittin on the shelf. That's a shame b/c the collector fanbase would gladly buy the re-issues at a fair price. &*%%^&g Geoffrey!!!!

cool pix for WJ - i'm no expert, but aren't his doors supposed to be painted? Or have the decals applied? or do u apply them once he's opened?

News Credits: 1082 · by **Tigertrack** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:02 am

I know for a fact that none of these KO's are really any less expensive than a TRU commemorative bot was.

These KO's usually cost upwards of $50+. The TRU comm. were between 30-50 at most.

And yes, the newere US toy laws are pretty prohibitive, especially on older toys...the most prohibitive for TFs is probably the drop test which drops toys from certain heights and looks at how they shatter, or don't. Jagged pieces, and small pieces that can be swallowed = fail. A RID Fortress Maximus release in the states failed due to the drop test.

The other is the size of loose pieces, or firing pieces. Basically, the pieces can not be inviting in size to put in one's mouth and swallow--only to get stuck in the esophagus causing a number of different issues.

For the TRU comm releases many missiles were extended to allow them to be released...Ultra Magnus, Jazz, the seekers to name a few.

I know it sounds silly, and since the TRU sets were mainly focused at collectors, you wouldn't think it would be an issue, but it was. They were on the very same shelves as kids toys, and you didn't have to show an ID to buy one, so yeah.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:02 am

What next then? Though in all practicality must, certain toys/items must be exclusively set to a particular age group. That's why I prefer and own the japanese releases which either are chromed and have functional missiles...........and with an age group indicator.

A strange thing though, the original USA Powermaster Optimus Prime had unchromed but longer smokestacks while Ginrai had diecast cab, chromed but shorter stacks.

News Credits: 12 · by **robofreak** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:35 pm

It does'nt matter if the TRU stuff was cheaper than the KO's. They sold them them in the toy section next to the other TF's with enough stock to not only appease collectors, but kids as well. Kids are the major buyers in this line and I can assure you that most kids are'nt going to buy a figure that looks like it should cost $10 for $30.

The line failed because it was poorly priced and now we're dealing with KO producers who know that collectors will go after KO's at the prices they market them at.

News Credits: 1 · by **vectorA3** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:08 am

don't buy em. Tell the KO producers to piss off. Screw the kids, it's bad parenting if the kids try to eat the missles! :twisted:

News Credits: 11 · by **kirbenvost** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:02 pm

So does anyone know how to tell if a Cyclonus is real or a KO? I'm trying to get one on eBay and don't wanna get ripped off.

News Credits: 2 · by **Might Gaine** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:54 pm

Here is my comprehensive guide:

http://highendtfs.com/?q=node/17

News Credits: 1 · by **vectorA3** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:46 am

excellent guide. If these guys can get the molds & re-release, why can't Takara/Hasbro??? They know this stuff sells like hotcakes!! at least to us diehard G1ers.

News Credits: 402 · by **Mkall** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:28 am

vectorA3 wrote:excellent guide. If these guys can get the molds & re-release, why can't Takara/Hasbro??? They know this stuff sells like hotcakes!! at least to us diehard G1ers.

Which, according to Hasbro, aren't plentiful enough to justify spending the resources to re-releasing the figures. Check out TT_24's post which he has already explained the reasons a lot better than I can.