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sabrigami wrote:That's exactly how I feel. After finally getting around to reading AHM 15, reading the spotlight today really ticked me off because they made Prowl just like everyone else. Man, I'm Becoming so spoiled now after LSoTW and Mr. Roche's other works. If only they would let him and James take the wheel.

Yeah, I know what you mean about feeling spoiled.

If we hadn't gotten AHM #15, I'd probably still have found this story boring and cliche, but it probably wouldn't actively annoy me so much, as it'd just be more milquetoast in an already-limp character.

But when AHM #15 came along and got the character just the most perfectly right-feeling ever in his fiction portrayals... it's hard not to shake a feeling of, "No, come on, you had it perfect... why didn't the editor force the writer of this to actually respect continuity for a change?"

Meanwhile, I've also read Wreckers #4, and the ideas and character development that R&R are coming up with continue to put the ongoing to shame.

I have no problem with the change in Prowl.

We have started to see a change in the Autobots, albeit in McCarthy's haphazard way, since Sideswipe's speech in AHM. It has continued in Ongoing with "changes" of Prime and Thundercracker.

The war, Prowl's "way" along with Autobots losing their way in general have all contributed in some way to Cybertronians stagnating as a species.

Prime was ahead of the curve in understanding how understanding humanity could help them move on as a species which is why he had Prime stay hidden deeply among them (we also now really know why Prime had the Autobots come to and stay on Earth.) You could tell by Prowl's inner monologue as the issue progressed that he was starting to get it. Prowl hasn't undergone a 180 degree change he has found a balance.

If he Prowl had just maintained being the "Autobot Shockwave" it would have given credence to Drift's assertion to Turmoil in his Spotlight that the Autobots had devolved nearly to the point of the Decepticons when the war began.

MYoung23 wrote:If he Prowl had just maintained being the "Autobot Shockwave" it would have given credence to Drift's assertion to Turmoil in his Spotlight that the Autobots had devolved nearly to the point of the Decepticons when the war began.

Yeah, because being logical and practical is evil, and you just can't be a good guy unless you do stupid impulsive things that are bleeding heart in the short-term but will damage the greater good in the long run.

Seriously, see my previous posts in this thread about what's wrong with your thoughts here.

Or better yet, read the last bits of my review about the sort of actual good character growth I wanted to see that would have let him stay as a completely intelligent, logical, and practical type while still being an Autobot. Instead of doing what this spotlight did and turning him into yet another generic cookie-cutter good guy.

I will say that this spotlight has definitely made me realize the ongoing isn't going to be anything but the same old cliched and unoriginal stories as long as Costa's on board. Wake me when Roche and Roberts get another mini, or they find someone to take over the ongoing who has some fresh and more interesting ideas.

Jeysie wrote:

MYoung23 wrote:If he Prowl had just maintained being the "Autobot Shockwave" it would have given credence to Drift's assertion to Turmoil in his Spotlight that the Autobots had devolved nearly to the point of the Decepticons when the war began.

Yeah, because being logical and practical is evil, and you just can't be a good guy unless you do stupid impulsive things that are bleeding heart in the short-term but will damage the greater good in the long run.

Seriously, see my previous posts in this thread about what's wrong with your thoughts here.

Or better yet, read the last bits of my review about the sort of actual good character growth I wanted to see that would have let him stay as a completely intelligent, logical, and practical type while still being an Autobot. Instead of doing what this spotlight did and turning him into yet another generic cookie-cutter good guy.

I will say that this spotlight has definitely made me realize the ongoing isn't going to be anything but the same old cliched and unoriginal stories as long as Costa's on board. Wake me when Roche and Roberts get another mini, or they find someone to take over the ongoing who has some fresh and more interesting ideas.

Ive read it and I'm not buying it.

The Autobots are supposed to be the good guys stopping the Decepticons. Letting innocents die when you can save them goes against what these IDW Autobots are supposed to be about. Cold logic is flawed. Prowl is a big reason why these Autobots lost their way and acting like Shockwave is a big reason why.

MYoung23 wrote:The Autobots are supposed to be the good guys stopping the Decepticons. Letting innocents die when you can save them goes against what these IDW Autobots are supposed to be about. Cold logic is flawed. Prowl is a big reason why these Autobots lost their way and acting like Shockwave is a big reason why.

1. The humans seem to be doing a great job of stopping the Decepticons themselves at this point. And the Autobots aren't even actively trying to help, they're just sitting around on their thumbs hiding. Prowl's right, they'd be better off moving to a less hostile planet, seeing as how the humans not only can take care of themselves, but are an active threat/enemy to the Autobots.

There's gotta be plenty of other organic races out there in the galaxy who truly would appreciate the Autobots' rebuilding from their own Decepticon attacks or would be non-hostile that the Autobots' time would be better spent helping; why instead waste your time on a species that doesn't want you and your help?

2. And if, while saving said innocent, he ends up dying and/or sparking an even worse anti-Cybertronian frenzy of people saying how "Now the metal monsters are attacking our children!" or something similar, even more people besides that one could die. Prowl got really, really lucky (yay Contrived Plot Luck), as there's so many ways that could have gone wrong and just made things even worse.

The Autobots didn't lose their way at all. They've always been the good guys in this series. That line from Drift was just BS from a writer who misinterpreted most of the -ations and thinks all good guys need to be Lawful Stupid paladin types to be "real" good guys.

Meanwhile, as was pointed out in AHM #15, the various loose cannons and impulsive decisions that backfired are part of why the Autobots are so badly on the rocks right now. If the Autobots keep doing impulsive things in the short term that damage the greater good in the long term, then there will be no one to do any protecting at all, as the Autobots will be wiped out.

(...well, you know. If we weren't reading a story where magic unrealistic Contrived Plot Luck always happens.)

3. Actually, the IDW Autobots were always about being soldiers in a war against their enemy, balancing protecting innocents where they could with the reality that sometimes you have to compromise in the short-term to achieve the greater good in the long term. I liked those Autobots; they were believable and respectable. The Autobots in AHM and the ongoing I just want to slap upside the head and tell to grow some ball bearings and some intelligence, respectively.

On top of that... I'd point out that these are the same Autobots who have done counter-infiltrations on countless planets and seen many of those planets suffer worse massacres than Earth did. Why now, after millions of years, do they suddenly turn into native-worshipping hippies? What's so special about humans compared to all of the other organic species they've met up with and observed and seen suffer?

***

If this spotlight was about almost anyone else, it might make more sense, though it'd still be kind of boring. But it bugs me seeing the type of character I can relate to and empathize with--the one trying to advocate reason, logic, and practicality in a sea of emotional people who do stupidly impulsive and damaging things and ignore you--made into just another boring generic character stripped of what made him interesting.

That's what I generally hate about humans being TF stories, they always end-up as being worshipped by the Autobots since we're so "special", "amazing" and "humane". Boring and annoying bull-crap.
Can't we once get a tf story that involves humans in a neutral way, in a way that dosen't make us out as the best thing since the start of the universe?
Oh wait we had that in the -ation series.

And yes the -ation series was full of moments in which the Autobots didn't really care for the humans and tried not to harm them when possible except for those moments where it wasn't possible any other way, or when Prime let that truck driver crash into his leg and watched him die.

I think this was a great comic AS A SPOTLIGHT, but as a link between AHM and Ongoing, as everything IDW tries to link their writers' inability to read their earlier stories, fails.

In the spotlight, Prime tells Prowl they are starting to get back the rest of the universe from the Decepticons, but it is weak; If we are thinking this comic only ties to the -ation series, this is fine, BUT at the start of Ongoing, even the autobots barely have resources at hand. Prime also tells they are using this planet because it is in good position - then why not use a planet that has no malevolent natives - even the Decepticons from Bayformers had their right mind to use the Mars as their base instead of Earth.

I'll give this issue 6/10, it is not bad, but not good either.

I'm with Jeysie.

First off, I'm obviously not an Autobot type. But one of the things I like about Prowl is the logic.

I don't get the whole 'logic' debate that's going on here. No one doubts that Spock is logical and yet not morally ambiguous.

My take on Prowl is that he is pure logic. I'd even go so far as to say, yes, he's like Shockwave. How is that a bad thing? Prowl is a Second in Command--it makes sense he's an asset (logic) and uses Optimus as his moral compass. And when Optimus disappears...he has a problem. (Bumblebee is a bit !fail on Moral Compass)

So anyway, all that to say, that's what I'm comparing this Prowl to.

One: I liked the art, but I hated the faces. Everything TT said in the review about the style I wholeheartedly agree with, but the face seems...unnecessarily clunky.

Two: The story itself is cliche. I know it's a comic and there's only so much you can do in 16 pages, and at least we got STORY as opposed to 16 pages of Adorable Ravage Kitty Scampering Around, (Wow, guess who has issues with that ToTF?) but 'the heart winning out over the mind'? A bit yawny. It would have been more original (though not by much) to have him let the Bad Thing Happen and then have moral qualms.

Blowing his cover
Saving a human when they're doing *that* to his kind

These are so OOC that it hurts. If he'd kept in character and then had second thoughts...I would have bought some sort of moral change. But...no.

The cover art is pretty, though. AND at least they didn't go...*Prowlicade*.

HK, yeah, that's it, I ended *positive*.

Sorry for coming in late. Why do I always get in late for the damn forums?

Anyway, here's my views on Prowl: http://comicbookrevolution.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=383:transformers-spotlight-prowl-review&catid=85:idw&Itemid=96

In summary: a pretty good issue, some nice character development, but a tad unprofessional, and Costa wouldn't need this is he'd portrtayed Prowl right in the first place!

Jeysie wrote:

MYoung23 wrote:If he Prowl had just maintained being the "Autobot Shockwave" it would have given credence to Drift's assertion to Turmoil in his Spotlight that the Autobots had devolved nearly to the point of the Decepticons when the war began.

Yeah, because being logical and practical is evil, and you just can't be a good guy unless you do stupid impulsive things that are bleeding heart in the short-term but will damage the greater good in the long run.

Seriously, see my previous posts in this thread about what's wrong with your thoughts here.

Or better yet, read the last bits of my review about the sort of actual good character growth I wanted to see that would have let him stay as a completely intelligent, logical, and practical type while still being an Autobot. Instead of doing what this spotlight did and turning him into yet another generic cookie-cutter good guy.

I will say that this spotlight has definitely made me realize the ongoing isn't going to be anything but the same old cliched and unoriginal stories as long as Costa's on board. Wake me when Roche and Roberts get another mini, or they find someone to take over the ongoing who has some fresh and more interesting ideas.

The problem is that if Prowl stayed "logical and pratical" a writer could turn him in the Autobot's version of Shockwave. The thing is that even at end of Furman's God Awful Run at IDW even he was showing that some of the Autobots weren't much better than the Decepticons.

Yes, you can be logical and pratical and still be a good guy, just like you can be emotional and immpulisive, the real trick is finding and maintaining balane, which is what Prowl is trying to do.

Cyberstrike wrote:The thing is that even at end of Furman's God Awful Run at IDW even he was showing that some of the Autobots weren't much better than the Decepticons.

Er, no he wasn't. Furman instead was finally breaking away from the tired cliche that good guys have to be bleeding heart types to count as good, and giving us more believable, practical and/or imperfect good guys. I miss Furman's more nuanced and more interesting take on the Autobots.

It was McCarthy who showed a lack of depth/understanding and put his incorrect perception of the IDW Autobots into that clueless line of Drift's.

Cyberstrike wrote:Yes, you can be logical and pratical and still be a good guy, just like you can be emotional and immpulisive, the real trick is finding and maintaining balane, which is what Prowl is trying to do.

Except that Costa's version of Prowl has no balance. He's pretty much gone straight over to the typical impractical impulsively-good Autobot standpoint. Whereas, like I said, the type of story I wanted to see would have been real in-character balance.